[Steve Shaver]

A couple weeks ago I ran a Master HT. Pete did an excellent job through the whole thing with remarks from the judges like, man that dog is on auto pilot, tens across the board on that one, and if this was a FT you'd be winning!
I was dropped in the last series. It was a triple and double blind. To cut the story short the problem was on the middle bird, a little short bird out of a winger on the back side of an island about 25 yards. Pete picked up the flyer an lined up on the island bird.. I knew he'd get to the top of that island and want to drive across the water so I told him easy, easy, then in real quiet calm voice said Pete to send him. He flinched like he wanted to go but but didnt. I sent him again a little louder and he was gone. I was dropped for a no go.
To me when I sent him on his name he wasnt sure if I said Pete or easy. once I clarified it he was gone.
:?: :?: What do you think :?: :?:

 

[Chris Atkinson]

A couple weeks ago I ran a Master HT. Pete did an excellent job through the whole thing with remarks from the judges like, man that dog is on auto pilot, tens across the board on that one, and if this was a FT you'd be winning!
I was dropped in the last series. It was a triple and double blind. To cut the story short the problem was on the middle bird, a little short bird out of a winger on the back side of an island about 25 yards. Pete picked up the flyer an lined up on the island bird.. I knew he'd get to the top of that island and want to drive across the water so I told him easy, easy, then in real quiet calm voice said Pete to send him. He flinched like he wanted to go but but didnt. I sent him again a little louder and he was gone. I was dropped for a no go.
To me when I sent him on his name he wasnt sure if I said Pete or easy. once I clarified it he was gone.
:?: :?: What do you think :?: :?:

Hey cousin.

See my PM please!

Chris

 

[K G]

Sounds like it might have been a case of confusion on the dog's part....but not being there to SEE/HEAR it, I'll withhold comment on the judge's call.

Did you ask the judges about it?

kg

 

[JS]

If it happened just the way you describe it, I would call it confusion. But then, I didn't see it and the judges did. :wink:
JS

 

[Steve Shaver]

Sounds like it might have been a case of confusion on the dog's part....but not being there to SEE/HEAR it, I'll withhold comment on the judge's call.

Did you ask the judges about it?

kg

You are exactly right it was a judgement call. and I'm ok with it even though I dont agree with it. After the dog went the judge ask ME, did you send that dog and he didnt go? I will see the judges tommorrow at a HT and will discuss it further with them.

 

[FOM]

Also do you practice the soft sends in training consistently?

Many times people try and wing it in tests with using tone of voice, but unless you do it all the time in training it doesn't become second nature to the dog - same thing with putting a hand down or not, all of a sudden someone might get the urge to put a hand down to cue a dog, but they have never done it in training and the dog bugs or no-gos or does something strange....

Also without being there I can't say if the judges were wrong or not, but they made a judgement call in which they felt there was no confussion on the dog's part....so they were right in their mind.

FOM

 

[Howard N]

I've done this in training trying to see how softly I can say their name and them getting the idea it's alright to retrieve. I can get them no going 'cause they're steady and really don't think they've been sent.

In a trial I'll repeat the, "Easy, easy, easy," cue but I'll send them just a little louder than I'd like, but still pretty dang quietly, to avoid the no go you encountered.

Seems like judges that would drop a dog for this in this situation, haven't trained their own dog this way.

 

[Steve Bean]

Not being there.....BUT......that can be a problem with judges who haven't done much training. And by that, I mean basically all of their training. There are definite NOGO situations, and they generally are very obvious to include a freeze, cowing (?sp) down, etc. It is usually easy to see confusion as well....which does sound like your situation, especially since nothing the judges had seen before would indicate a problem (all ten's). Bum deal IMO. Sometimes judges look for a reason not to pass rather than giving the benefit of a doubt.

 

[Steve Shaver]

Not being there.....BUT......that can be a problem with judges who haven't done much training. And by that, I mean basically all of their training. There are definite NOGO situations, and they generally are very obvious to include a freeze, cowing (?sp) down, etc. It is usually easy to see confusion as well....which does sound like your situation, especially since nothing the judges had seen before would indicate a problem (all ten's). Bum deal IMO. Sometimes judges look for a reason not to pass rather than giving the benefit of a doubt.

Exactly. If they would have really thought about it they would have realized this was not a no go. Especially seeing the way he ran the rest of the test. He even let out a little yip of excitment on the flyer before the mark in question. Dog is 5 years old and never rufused me once.
I'll bet if Miriam would have been running him he would have passed :lol: :wink: . Seems as though she can get him through a master and I cant :twisted:

 

[Frenchy]

I tend to think that one would be a handler error. Handler's fault not the dogs or the judges. There is definately room to interpret that as confusion, but in the end its judges call. What's the saying about giving a judge "something to judge"....it can go either way. Its a tough pill to swallow, but it happens.

 

[Guest]

IF it's all as you described and IF the dog had done as well as you described... If I were you, I'd be really disappointed...

The whole point of dropping dog on a nogo is because it's a refusal. If your dog took off like a shot on every other mark and blind... There's no indication that your dog had any hesitancy to go any other time.

If it was a blind, it's cut and dry. On a mark, the judges can call it confusion... as others had metioned.

I would be disappointed.

On that note, I have a dog just like your's. I have to be really careful communicating short birds and if I send TOO quietly, he might not go. So it's a gray line and sometimes I just want to whisper, but I have to make sure I don't say it too quietly.

I have had several occasions where dogs didn't go on marks for one reason or another and I have yet to be dropped for it. If the dogs performance is otherwise really nice, I think it's a disappointing reason to be dropped...

-K

 

[HarryWilliams]

A no go is an OBVIOUS refusal to go. What you described didn't meet that criteria to me. HPW

 

[Miriam Wade]

Bummer Steve I just have to hope (not that it makes you feel any better) that the judges truly felt it was a no-go (which I don't think Petey is even capable of) & not that they weren't concerned about making the distinction between that & confusion. It's too bad that when there are clear cut, blatant reasons to drop a Master dog-that, after such overall great work he's dropped on a grey area call.

M

 

[john fallon]

Cardinal Rule of Judging: always give the dog the benefit of the doubt.

We had a dog dropped for breaking, for going on its number.
. . . it would be hard for me to imagine someone Judging that would give a dog its number after it had broken :roll:

It takes all kinds regards,
john

 

[Guest]

Cardinal Rule of Judging: always give the dog the benefit of the doubt.

We had a dog dropped for breaking, for going on its number.
. . . it would be hard for me to imagine someone Judging that would give a dog its number after it had broken :roll:

It takes all kinds regards,
john

How long ago was that and pm me who it was so I can avoid the person like the plague. LOL

-K

 

[john fallon]

Cardinal Rule of Judging: always give the dog the benefit of the doubt.

We had a dog dropped for breaking, for going on its number.
. . . it would be hard for me to imagine someone Judging that would give a dog its number after it had broken :roll:

It takes all kinds regards,
john

How long ago was that and pm me who it was so I can avoid the person like the plague. LOL

-K

A few weeks ago at a FT in MD.

john

 

[Gun_Dog2002]

Cardinal Rule of Judging: always give the dog the benefit of the doubt.

We had a dog dropped for breaking, for going on its number.
. . . it would be hard for me to imagine someone Judging that would give a dog its number after it had broken :roll:

It takes all kinds regards,
john

How long ago was that and pm me who it was so I can avoid the person like the plague. LOL

-K

I can tell you who it wasn't.....


/Paul

 

[obxdog]

If, as you stated, you softly said dogs name and all he did was flinch and not even take a step foward that would be confusion on the part of the dog definitly, it is also the judges making an assumption that you sent your dog, which may or may not be the case. Confusion is usually easily recognizable and assumptions by judges should be avoided when possible.

 

[Guest]

If, as you stated, you softly said dogs name and all he did was flinch and not even take a step foward that would be confusion on the part of the dog definitly, it is also the judges making an assumption that you sent your dog, which may or may not be the case. Confusion is usually easily recognizable and assumptions by judges should be avoided when possible.

that's a really good way of putting it. I was running a dog on a pretty technical blind (it was on land, but required a fine line) and I was taking my time lining the dog up. He took off, got about three steps out and I said "here" and started working with him again because I wanted to be really careful to communicate the line and have him settled down.

Thankfully one judge was right there with me and KNEW I hadn't sent him because the other (super nice guy) was concerned that I had already sent him.

In hindsight, I probably should have let him go, but I wanted him settled down and paying attention to what I was telling him about where to go.

-K