RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner
1 - 20 of 109 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 16 mo old blm that I am having some trouble with when running tests. His line manners are horrible when he is at a test environment. It's not just his line manners, but also in the holding blind and walking to and from the truck. It has been wearing me out and I wanted to see what you good folks here have to say about it.

To give a little background. When we ran JR tests last fall he was pretty bad by the last test in the holding blind and about pulling me to the line. There was NO getting him back to heel. In the blind he was always trying to lunge out. He would sit for just a sec, but that would be it...then back to trying to pull out and to the line.

After this, I started to try and slow things way down for him in training. Beginning at the truck and slowly working my way to the holding blind and then finally to the line. If any goof-ups, then back to the truck we went to start all over again. Of course training has went well. He is under control even when training in larger groups with bigger set ups and more dogs. I cannot seem to re-create the test behavior even when training in larger groups.

Now, this past weekend we ran in HRC Seasoned tests. Luckily we passed, but he was awful again going from truck, in the blind, going to the line, and at the line. Once he gets off the line for his marks or blind, he listens to me well. But at the line he is not responding well to my commands of SIT, give me very little push/pull, and is starting to develop a creeping issue.

There is no way I can run him in any SR tests and try walking to line off lead until i get him under more control. What do y'all think I should do to try and fix some of these issues?

In training NONE of this would be tolerated, but my dog is "great" when training. A little creeping still, but none of this poor behavior and lack of control in the holding bling or at the line. My main concern in trying to get this dog under better control. I realizie he is young and that he has only been to the line 6 times at a test scenario. So I expect some of this will get better with experience as the dog begins to grasp whats going on a little better. Even when hunting over my dog this season, he was pretty darn well mannered in the field. Again, I try to keep my standards pretty high.

I am following SmartWorks.

So lets hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,869 Posts
Maybe I didn't see it but do you use a collar for corrections? Do you try using flyers when you are training with your pro? Do you use a mat in training for your dog to sit on?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Maybe I didn't see it but do you use a collar for corrections? Do you try using flyers when you are training with your pro? Do you use a mat in training for your dog to sit on?
Yes, I use a collar. Also heeling stick. Sometimes a boot.

He does get live flyers in training. He typically gets bumpers for any yard/drill work and dead birds for marks. 50/50 for blinds.

I do use a mat. However, he recognizes what it is and in training started to get there a little more quickly than I like. I correct for this every time. Sometimes I wont use mat, but do most of the time. And b/c of his awareness of what this mat is, I have been stepping back off the mat and reheeling him with me so that he can start to realize that he wont run from the mat every time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
881 Posts
Man I need this thread badly, thanks for starting it and thanks to all who contribute civilly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,502 Posts
My older dog was the same way. He started at a later age training. I always felt if I got to the line fantastic b/c he could do the work. Got through Seasoned HR but never took him further. He could drag me if he wanted. We used a prong collar and demanded sit!!! and kept to that standard in training. Used the collar walking to the line but he got smart and knew it was off at a test! Practiced just heeling during training sessions, letting him just watch the birds and guns go off, making him abide by the standard in the holding blind. HT two days in a row was not a good thing.:) Since your dog is really young you probably have a good chance of turning him around. I would not HT him until you do have more control b/c you need to be in control for Finished HT or Master level. Just my opinion. Be interested in what the others think. Good Luck to you!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Are you training with holding blinds??...maybe 2 or 3 before running may help. Also if he won't creep in training, try backing up with a heel nick heel after the mark is thrown. I wouldn't run too many hunt tests in a row, or this will get worse.

I'm interested to hear what others have to say with difficulty at the line in hunt tests because you probably don't have much trouble in training. I agree with flyers and mix them up being short and long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My older dog was the same way. He started at a later age training. I always felt if I got to the line fantastic b/c he could do the work. Got through Seasoned HR but never took him further. He could drag me if he wanted. We used a prong collar and demanded sit!!! and kept to that standard in training. Used the collar walking to the line but he got smart and knew it was off at a test! Practiced just heeling during training sessions, letting him just watch the birds and guns go off, making him abide by the standard in the holding blind. HT two days in a row was not a good thing.:) Since your dog is really young you probably have a good chance of turning him around. I would not HT him until you do have more control b/c you need to be in control for Finished HT or Master level. Just my opinion. Be interested in what the others think. Good Luck to you!!!!
I wish my pup would get this way during training so I could correct. As I mentioned in the OP, in training he is good. He will heel off lead. I can leave him in holding blind for long time with marks going off and poppers, etc. I try setting him up in the holding blind and he does great. At the line in training he is responsive to me and listens well (aside from some minor creeping issues, but those are the least of my concerns at this point in time).

He also honors pretty good in training. But I wouldn't dare trust him acting this way at a test to honor. I do think I may try just staking him out and watching every dog run during training. Maybe this will help a bit to get him used to waiting.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,856 Posts
Can you get out to day train Dustin? I think I can help you out...

Angie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,869 Posts
I wouldn't say a lil creeping is the least of your worries, don't let it get any worse. Do you do most of your training at the same place or do you train at digf locations? Good luck to you and your dog. JC knows what he is doing and sure he can help you get it worked out
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,021 Posts
Can you get out to day train Dustin? I think I can help you out...

Angie
Dustin,
You need to take advantage of this offer.

RK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,411 Posts
Do a search here of a thread titled "sit means sit or does it"
Originator is Ted Shih

Read the entire thread, and play close Attention

Do NOT listen to those that tell you a litle bit of creep is ok

Do not listen to those that tell you your fog won't fail the early levels of ht because of creeps or overly wzcites line manners

Quit running tests until you have this well under control

It will only get worse I'd you don't

Gooser who speaks from a LOT of experience

Gooer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,877 Posts
Angie should be able to evaluate your dog and give you better ways to help your dog than anyone on here. It certainly helps to see EXACTLY what your dog is doing. I would take her up on her kind offer.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,562 Posts
I have a 16 mo old blm that I am having some trouble with when running tests. His line manners are horrible when he is at a test environment. It's not just his line manners, but also in the holding blind and walking to and from the truck. It has been wearing me out and I wanted to see what you good folks here have to say about it.

To give a little background. When we ran JR tests last fall he was pretty bad by the last test in the holding blind and about pulling me to the line. There was NO getting him back to heel. In the blind he was always trying to lunge out. He would sit for just a sec, but that would be it...then back to trying to pull out and to the line.

After this, I started to try and slow things way down for him in training. Beginning at the truck and slowly working my way to the holding blind and then finally to the line. If any goof-ups, then back to the truck we went to start all over again. Of course training has went well. He is under control even when training in larger groups with bigger set ups and more dogs. I cannot seem to re-create the test behavior even when training in larger groups.

Now, this past weekend we ran in HRC Seasoned tests. Luckily we passed, but he was awful again going from truck, in the blind, going to the line, and at the line. Once he gets off the line for his marks or blind, he listens to me well. But at the line he is not responding well to my commands of SIT, give me very little push/pull, and is starting to develop a creeping issue.

There is no way I can run him in any SR tests and try walking to line off lead until i get him under more control. What do y'all think I should do to try and fix some of these issues?

In training NONE of this would be tolerated, but my dog is "great" when training. A little creeping still, but none of this poor behavior and lack of control in the holding bling or at the line. My main concern in trying to get this dog under better control. I realizie he is young and that he has only been to the line 6 times at a test scenario. So I expect some of this will get better with experience as the dog begins to grasp whats going on a little better. Even when hunting over my dog this season, he was pretty darn well mannered in the field. Again, I try to keep my standards pretty high.

I am following SmartWorks.

So lets hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks!!

First quit running him in tests ( I'm sure you already know this) second the red high lighted portion of your post says it all a little creeping in training will only get worse in a test or trial. You need to take Angie up on her offer to come out and train, you will most likely find that your OB is not where you believe it is and sometimes it takes a well qualified person sitting in the chair behind us and a swift kick in the arse to realise it, almost always the handlers fault not the dogs.. Good luck...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Do a search here of a thread titled "sit means sit or does it"
Originator is Ted Shih

Read the entire thread, and play close Attention

Do NOT listen to those that tell you a litle bit of creep is ok

Do not listen to those that tell you your fog won't fail the early levels of ht because of creeps or overly wzcites line manners

Quit running tests until you have this well under control

It will only get worse I'd you don't

Gooser who speaks from a LOT of experience

Gooer
I agree that the creeping is NOT OK. I do correct for this when it happens and will continue to work on this.

I also agree that stopping testing for now may be a good option until I get this under control.

I appreciate everyones advice and would love to hear more. Keep it coming!!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,856 Posts
What does your pro JC say or suggest?
This is the best advice. If you are already using a pro connect with him.

You're more then welcome here anytime, but sit down and talk with JC. I'm sure you 2 will come to a solution.

Angie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
Todd said it, and I will second that. "Obedience". My older dog is a handful to the line. I have buckled down on his obedience, it was not what I thought it to be. I can get him in training and training days to heel real good, then comes hunt test day. maybe I just need to go faster.
The pup now, is way tighter in his obedience and he goes to the line real well, and we take our time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
One thing that I have done is to go to a club training day and just make my dog honor for long stretches at a time. If he so much as raises his back side up he learns that is not what I am looking for. I have learned from having a dog break at a test not once but twice that I needed to do something other then just wait for the test when he decided to go before we fixed that issue. I have purposely attempted to over excite him by using shackled birds and tricking him into breaking or even ramping up the excitement level to trick him into moving so as to get a forceful correction. At his last Master test we had a no bird on honor, and the live flier flopped out of the winger and there were 4 people running around chasing the duck while my dog watched. Thankfully I was unaware of what all the excitement was about as I did not take my eyes off of my dog the whole time, and kept quietly telling him "no bird". Raising the stimulus level so as to get the opportunity to make the correction has been helpful to me, and thankfully I have some understanding and helpful friends who assisted me. Let's hope this helps you, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,156 Posts
I have nothing to add, except that I feel your pain. I really, seriously do. Atticus can still be a PIA, .


But I do want to thank the OP, because....




you know what this thread title means???



Spring is here!

Spring has sprung!
Whoooo-hooooooo!

Good dogs misbehavin'--Better than the first robin. :D:D:D:D:D

And good luck. I really so feel your pain and wish you the best of luck--better luck than I've had, for sure.
 
1 - 20 of 109 Posts
Top