[john fallon]

Do something about what?

I don't have a beef with RFTNentry or EE.

I have issues with both...

...but not one any more than the other regards


john

 

[John Kelder]

Using numbers from this thread , at $3 per entry fee charged by the CC companies ,and using 150 dogs per event ,and 240 FTs per year , that comes to $ 108,000 annually in the loss column .Any business would look for other ways to offset that loss .
It will be a while before they are out of the red .

 

[K G]

Are they doing enough events to EVER be out of the red?

I hope someone on the inside is asking that question.....

kg

 

[Ken Guthrie]

Are they doing enough events to EVER be out of the red?

I hope someone on the inside is asking that question.....

kg

KG,

What if getting in the black was the only means of survival of the clubs?

Then what?

 

[john fallon]

I hope they can make it out of the red.

For me, one of the top draws of the electronic entry is the 11:59 closing...
If that fee increse from $3 to 4 to 4.50 and the bogus attempt at justifacation of it by telling us it was for the good of the FT giving clubs was any example of how it could be if EE were the only game in town. I hope we never go back to the point of having one entry service.

Don't pee down my boot.... regards

john

 

[K G]

KG,

What if getting in the black was the only means of survival of the clubs?

Then what?

Staying in the black usually IS the only means of survival of a "non profit" organization....same thing for a for-profit, unless it exists as a "write off" for a bigger company.

I'm having a hard time feeling any sympathy whatsoever for either National club with regard to RFTE. The clubs that make up the National organizations didn't get a vote on this move....weren't asked for feedback or even if they would consider adopting the new service until AFTER it was "online"....to me, from a marketing standpoint, it's right up there with Coca Cola's decision back in the 80's to replace what we now call Coke Classic with New Coke (same thing only different).

I, and a LOT of other people, took particular offense at the strong-arm methods certain National officers used to try to get clubs to use the service. That the "new" product couldn't develop it's own user loyalty didn't seem to matter much to them; we should just change to their product because THEY said to. I'm not even gonna bring up the BS that was spread about their competitor in an attempt to get users to change their loyalties....

RFTN has a another problem that will be a challenge to overcome as well: the demise of the print medium. Magazines and newspapers are going under left and right because of the ubiquity of the Internet. They have a resource (www.working-retriever.com) that they have largely abandoned and left to hackers. There is no reason whatsover that they couldn't put the montly editions of the magazine online and let folks print them out for themselves if they wanted to. Imagine the costs they would eliminate! Since online entries are 99% of all entries for HTs and FTs, they don't have to look for customers: they're already on the Internet! There could be different tiers of "subscriptions" for online customers, the submission of event results and advertising would be all but seamless, and the production cost would be a fraction of what it is now....all that savings might even help pay for the THOUSANDS of dollars they've spent on a product that will NEVER support itself.

But hey...they want to keep swimming against the tide, that's fine with me. All I do is write 'em a couple of checks every year and send 'em results....I, and a bunch of folks LIKE me, don't matter one whit when it comes to making decisions that affect the National clubs and their operation.

Insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results regards,

kg

 

[Gun_Dog2002]

I hope they can make it out of the red.

For me, one of the top draws of the electronic entry is the 11:59 closing...
If that fee increse from $3 to 4 to 4.50 and the bogus attempt at justifacation of it by telling us it was for the good of the FT giving clubs was any example of how it could be if EE were the only game in town. I hope we never go back to the point of having one entry service.

Don't pee down my boot.... regards

john

John didn't you miss getting entered in a FT because of the system? I've never had that happen at EE and the customer service is much better.

/Paul

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

There is no reason whatsover that they couldn't put the montly editions of the magazine online and let folks print them out for themselves if they wanted to. Imagine the costs they would eliminate! Since online entries are 99% of all entries for HTs and FTs, they don't have to look for customers: they're already on the Internet! There could be different tiers of "subscriptions" for online customers, the submission of event results and advertising would be all but seamless, and the production cost would be a fraction of what it is now....

Something I have wondered about for eons. Could be the difference between an organization run by committee, vs. one run by a focused individual or two with input directly from the customer.

Lisa

 

[BonMallari]

...

RFTN has a another problem that will be a challenge to overcome as well: the demise of the print medium. Magazines and newspapers are going under left and right because of the ubiquity of the Internet. They have a resource (www.working-retriever.com) that they have largely abandoned and left to hackers. There is no reason whatsover that they couldn't put the montly editions of the magazine online and let folks print them out for themselves if they wanted to. Imagine the costs they would eliminate! Since online entries are 99% of all entries for HTs and FTs, they don't have to look for customers: they're already on the Internet! There could be different tiers of "subscriptions" for online customers, the submission of event results and advertising would be all but seamless, and the production cost would be a fraction of what it is now....all that savings might even help pay for the THOUSANDS of dollars they've spent on a product that will NEVER support itself.

But hey...they want to keep swimming against the tide, that's fine with me. All I do is write 'em a couple of checks every year and send 'em results....I, and a bunch of folks LIKE me, don't matter one whit when it comes to making decisions that affect the National clubs and their operation.

Insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results regards,

kg

One of the problems is you have the "old guard" still calling the shots and I would guess that some of them arent exactly computer literate
Its just like the RHOF the process is somewhat secretive and not up for public scrutiny by the current rank and file.
Unfortunately its a one horse league like the NFL,as was mentioned earlier in this thread, they own the game and conceivably they could strong arm clubs into playing with their system no matter how dysfunctional it may be...

Working Retriever.com is archaic and as you mentioned basically unattended and not up to date. Its a shame that the site that should house the history of our sport, rules, and other pertinent info has very little of that.

RFTN will soon be a thing of the past because by the time we get our issue the info is only good for scrapbook purposes since the results could be found within hours, sometimes minutes of the end of the event...

Great post K.G.

 

[John Kelder]

Maybe RFTE should just hire Shayne as a consultant .

Visions of Dogbert from Dilbert dancing in my head regards ,

 

[Ken Guthrie]

Great post KG. Your spot on.

Now below...

The clubs that make up the National organizations didn't get a vote on this move....weren't asked for feedback or even if they would consider adopting the new service until AFTER it was "online"....
kg

If you were a member of one of these clubs, how would you have handled such action?

 

[Ken Guthrie]

Maybe RFTE should just hire Shayne as a consultant .

I think they tried that long ago.....

I wish I was the fly on that wall.

 

[K G]

Great post KG. Your spot on.

Now below...

If you were a member of one of these clubs, how would you have handled such action?

I AM a member of one of those clubs! I suspect YOU are as well! The question becomes: WHO is responsible to WHOM?????????

Will the Circle Be Unbroken regards,

kg

 

[Steve]

I stopped my subscription of RFTN when people started posting results on RTF. Why wait 2 months to find out.

 

[john fallon]

John didn't you miss getting entered in a FT because of the system ?

/Paul

Well yes and no. The system did still have a glitch that has now been fixed, but their customer service did come through for me in the end .

Look Paul/, I'm not on board with the National Clubs handling of this entry thing in its entirity, but as far as the nuts and bolts of this last effort.. for entering a trial that they have listed, it will do for me.

john

 

[Ken Guthrie]

I AM a member of one of those clubs! I suspect YOU are as well! The question becomes: WHO is responsible to WHOM?????????

Will the Circle Be Unbroken regards,

kg

I knew that, I just didn't want to paint a broad brush.

Keeping it hypothetical, personally I would put my foot down as a club member in other ways than internet dismay.

In other words, what measures do you think are worthy and proper to show your disagreement with any issue you feel strongly against?

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

Sorry i'm behind on this thread... been in bed sick for a few days. Couple things i need to answer.

Guthrie...
Me posting on the "economics" of an entry service in this thread is different than their letter for a couple reasons.
1. I actually understand the economics of an entry service, whereas the author of the letter clearly does not, and my information was accurate.
2. I was posing a question based on statements made in that letter.
3. I don't pretend to have a clue about when to keep my mouth shut.

Guthrie pt 2...
No one affiliated with the National Clubs or RFTN has EVER offered me a job or an opportunity for consultation. Anything you have heard to the contrary is a total LIE. I am, however, very familiar with the "rumor" of such an offer and i know its originator. Had they made the offer they claimed to have made, i'd probably be sipping the kool-aid right now telling yall how great "our" entry system is. But it never happened.

Fallon...
I appreciate your candor. I outlined our logic for the price increase (i must be crazy, what other company does that?) and you must also remember that the biggest portion of this "game" puts titles at the end of their dog's name, not the beginning. EE exists for the field trial AND hunt test community. In the end, it has made a big impact and we have seen a substantial reduction in 11th hour entries - and while they may help the HT secretary more so than the FT secretary since FTs don't split flights, its pretty nice for the FT secretary as well. In retrospect, it was the right move and was the lesser evil of an across the board increase to cover rising CC processing fees and rising entry fees. In case you missed "Entry Service Economics 101", we lose money on an $80 entry fee with a $3 processing fee.

Did i miss anything???????

SM

 

[K G]

I knew that, I just didn't want to paint a broad brush.

That's never stopped you before....;-)

Keeping it hypothetical, personally I would put my foot down as a club member in other ways than internet dismay.

So....since you ARE a club member, what other ways HAVE you put your foot down? Seriously....

In other words, what measures do you think are worthy and proper to show your disagreement with any issue you feel strongly against?

Now you've got that broad brush out. For the sake of thread consistency, I'm going to stay on topic.

This issue is singular, and I believe the die is cast. Ron Ainley's letter pretty much confirms that to me. EE's momentum is not slowing down and every week that passes by without RFTE picking up new events is a week they continue to lose money for ALL NRC/NARC member clubs. Until the product can stand on its own and, as Shayne pointed out, begin to service AKC HT clubs, they are dead in the water. How long they can stand to do that is anyone's guess...and that alone should trouble the great majority of us since we are, by our local club membership, supporters of the National clubs.

kg

 

[Ken Guthrie]

So....since you ARE a club member, what other ways HAVE you put your foot down? Seriously....

At this point, I don't know if I'm a club member actually.

I've never paid any dues towards a club other than volunteer help.

But if in fact I am a member, I put my foot down towards issues that I'm concerned with.

The online entry service is such a minor issue towards the big picture.

For most here lately, it's obviously a huge issue.

So my question goes back to you..........

When you have a major issue with an act, movement, direction, or anything you feel strong about directly goes against what you or your club stands for..............

What do you do about it?

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

At this point, I don't know if I'm a club member actually.

Well there's the problem right there. What we need are real clubs, with real membership.

Sorry, i couldn't help it regards,

SM