[dead bird]

is there a rule or an un written rule as to the number of handles that you can use in a master test and still receive a qualifying score..thru 3 series??????

 

[Juli H]

generally unwritten rule of one handle (total) in three series...however this is not set in stone...I am sure there have been dogs that passed with more than one handle.

Juli

 

[Rick_C]

Just know what I've heard which is that you need at least one clean series, so two handles, as long as they're clean handles, and you're generally good.

Imagine it depends a lot on the judges and particular test though.

 

[Thomas D]

Depends on the judges and the caliber of the handles.

Not all handles are created equal regards.

 

[dead bird]

Just know what I've heard which is that you need at least one clean series, so two handles, as long as they're clean handles, and you're generally good.

Imagine it depends a lot on the judges and particular test though.

thanks Rick C....

I also assumed the 1 handle rule also until this morning ( you know what they say when you assume) well it cost me and my girl a masters pass....
handled... once....... cleanly on 1st series
ran a clean 2nd series
thought I couldn't handler her and still receive a qualifying score but after she got way of line I had no other choice but to handle her and by then she got up in the blind retrieve area with lots of scent and then I had a hard time getting her out of that area but I did and she pick up the bird..... then the judge asked me why I waited so long before I handle her...i told him and he said the same as you did Rick C...then the judge said that If i had handled her sooner she/we would of be fine....Lesson learned the hard way i guess....

 

[Guest]

ON AVERAGE, in our area, if all of your other marks are decent, you can handle once in two series (two total handles) as long as they are decent handles.

Occasionally, on an extremely difficult test, I've seen three total allowed (one in each of three series) or even a double handle in one series (rare, but it does happen in extreme circumstances).

It's a hard call when to handle and what you might expect in the judging...

-K

 

[Don Smith]

Depends on the judges and the caliber of the handles.

Not all handles are created equal regards.

True. Big difference (and scoring difference) between a handle to the area of fall and a handle in the area of fall.

 

[stonybrook]

For me, a Master level dog needs to demonstrate it's ability to count to three on it's own. Therefore, if you run the 1st series clean (triple) and have to handle on the next 2 series (given that they are good handles without refusals) you should be ok.

Having three triples in a Master test gives the dog/handler the maximum number of opportunities to show that it can count to three.

FWIW - I'd personally rather see a dog get a quick, clean handle than to hunt the entire countryside and eventually stumble upon the bird (both in hunting and in testing).

Travis

 

[MoJo]

To quote Lisa Van Loo, "It depends". If the judges have set up some tricky tests and few are doing them, they might allow you leeway.

Also, if your dog has done well on the other marks, it should be allowed. There is no formal AKC rule that states that a dog is only allowed one handle in a Master test, thought there are many Judges that assume that to be the norm.

 

[short retired]

Usually if you do a clean triple in one series. Two clean handles in the other two dont usually get you dropped.

 

[Stan b]

thanks Rick C....

I also assumed the 1 handle rule also until this morning ( you know what they say when you assume) well it cost me and my girl a masters pass....
handled... once....... cleanly on 1st series
ran a clean 2nd series
thought I couldn't handler her and still receive a qualifying score but after she got way of line I had no other choice but to handle her and by then she got up in the blind retrieve area with lots of scent and then I had a hard time getting her out of that area but I did and she pick up the bird..... then the judge asked me why I waited so long before I handle her...i told him and he said the same as you did Rick C...then the judge said that If i had handled her sooner she/we would of be fine....Lesson learned the hard way i guess....

Just an opinion......
When in the test, you are running it to pass.
Do what you have to do to get the bird in your hand.
Let the chips fall where they may.

Not guarunteeing a pass that way, it's just the way I do it!!

Good luck going forward!!

stan b

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

thanks Rick C....

I also assumed the 1 handle rule also until this morning ( you know what they say when you assume) well it cost me and my girl a masters pass....
handled... once....... cleanly on 1st series
ran a clean 2nd series
thought I couldn't handler her and still receive a qualifying score but after she got way of line I had no other choice but to handle her and by then she got up in the blind retrieve area with lots of scent and then I had a hard time getting her out of that area but I did and she pick up the bird..... then the judge asked me why I waited so long before I handle her...i told him and he said the same as you did Rick C...then the judge said that If i had handled her sooner she/we would of be fine....Lesson learned the hard way i guess....

Rule of thumb when running your dog in an event (any event, not just HT): know your dog, know his/her strengths weaknesses, then handle in a way that does not set your dog back. I am not a firm believer in doing things just to "save a leg" or "save a ribbon" if it means I will set my dog back or let it learn a bad lesson or become trial-wise. In your situation, if it were my dog, I would have handled rather tha allow the dog to get so far off line it became confused or stumbled on the wrong bird. Do what is best for your dog on that day, and let the judges sort it out. That is my motto.

Lisa

 

[Stan b]

Rule of thumb when running your dog in an event (any event, not just HT): know your dog, know his/her strengths weaknesses, then handle in a way that does not set your dog back. I am not a firm believer in doing things just to "save a leg" or "save a ribbon" if it means I will set my dog back or let it learn a bad lesson or become trial-wise. In your situation, if it were my dog, I would have handled rather tha allow the dog to get so far off line it became confused or stumbled on the wrong bird. Do what is best for your dog on that day, and let the judges sort it out. That is my motto.

Lisa

With all due respect, that statement contradicts itself.

I agree 100% that I might handle in a way different in a test (to save the leg or ribbon) than in training.
Not habitually, but once I don't think would ruin things.

And I also agree I would handle to the dogs strengths.
I agree with your statement that I emboldened.

Not looking to argue, just sharing experience.

stam b

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

Rule of thumb when running your dog in an event (any event, not just HT): know your dog, know his/her strengths weaknesses, then handle in a way that does not set your dog back. I am not a firm believer in doing things just to "save a leg" or "save a ribbon" if it means I will set my dog back or let it learn a bad lesson or become trial-wise. In your situation, if it were my dog, I would have handled rather tha allow the dog to get so far off line it became confused or stumbled on the wrong bird. Do what is best for your dog on that day, and let the judges sort it out. That is my motto.

Lisa

With all due respect, that statement contradicts itself.

I agree 100% that I might handle in a way different in a test (to save the leg or ribbon) than in training.
Not habitually, but once I don't think would ruin things.

And I also agree I would handle to the dogs strengths.
I agree with your statement that I emboldened.

Not looking to argue, just sharing experience.

stam b

I disagree, It is not a contradictory statement especially if followed throughout the working career of the dog. But you have to see the VERY big picture to see what is best for the dog at that exact time. Too many people are so focused on that days ribbon that they allow the dog to do stuff they would never allow in training. And ribbons are way cool and I have done the same. I am very slowly learning. And past handling on a mark is picking up before being asked to. I have now done that a couple times as well. After watching folks I respect and admire doing the same. Yes you turn the test into a $75 training day but you thank the judges and mutter “she is not getting away with that $hit” and everybody will understand. I remember giving a particularly loud “NO HERE” on a water blind at a NAHRA Field test and the good old boy friendly judges said “Aw why did you do that, your marks were great, if you had just hacked away a bit longer we would have passed you” I thanked them kindly but told them sometimes the test standards and my standards are not the same. It took me a very very very long time to realize this. Another time when I did get the friendly hand on the shoulder, I was waiting for it actually and was hoping it would come quicker, but it did come. I asked “do I have to call her in or may I go out and get her?” The older judge smiled at me in a friendly knowing Santa Clause type of smile and replied “Please don’t do anything we need to write up” So I waddle out there to a totally self employed mostly testwise Chessie hunting all over hells back acre and get about ten feet from her before she notices me! The pick up your dog term was very real to her and I indeed picked her up like you would carry a retriever into the vets office. Out of the field, past the judges chairs (thank you both very much), through the gallery and down the trail to the parking area. The quiet discussion we had with me whispering in her ear all the way made a vast impression. As I was taught by my mentors “dogs need to know there is no spot on Gods Green Earth that YOU cannot get to, to lay hands on them." That one carry improved that dogs testing more than months of training.

 

[Stan b]

I disagree, It is not a contradictory statement especially if followed throughout the working career of the dog. But you have to see the VERY big picture to see what is best for the dog at that exact time. Too many people are so focused on that days ribbon that they allow the dog to do stuff they would never allow in training. And ribbons are way cool and I have done the same. I am very slowly learning. And past handling on a mark is picking up before being asked to. I have now done that a couple times as well. After watching folks I respect and admire doing the same. Yes you turn the test into a $75 training day but you thank the judges and mutter “she is not getting away with that $hit” and everybody will understand. I remember giving a particularly loud “NO HERE” on a water blind at a NAHRA Field test and the good old boy friendly judges said “Aw why did you do that, your marks were great, if you had just hacked away a bit longer we would have passed you” I thanked them kindly but told them sometimes the test standards and my standards are not the same. It took me a very very very long time to realize this. Another time when I did get the friendly hand on the shoulder, I was waiting for it actually and was hoping it would come quicker, but it did come. I asked “do I have to call her in or may I go out and get her?” The older judge smiled at me in a friendly knowing Santa Clause type of smile and replied “Please don’t do anything we need to write up” So I waddle out there to a totally self employed mostly testwise Chessie hunting all over hells back acre and get about ten feet from her before she notices me! The pick up your dog term was very real to her and I indeed picked her up like you would carry a retriever into the vets office. Out of the field, past the judges chairs (thank you both very much), through the gallery and down the trail to the parking area. The quiet discussion we had with me whispering in her ear all the way made a vast impression. As I was taught by my mentors “dogs need to know there is no spot on Gods Green Earth that YOU cannot get to, to lay hands on them." That one carry improved that dogs testing more than months of training.

I hear you.
I agree with that and have had to do it.
I may not be expressing myself well.
I am saying if my dog was in trouble, and I KNEW I could help him, I would try and see what the judges do.
Staying within what we (dog & me) can do well.

Hope to see you at a NAHRA test some time.

stan b

 

[dead bird]

thanks to all the replied......
as you can tell this was my 1st masters test....a day later I'm still thinking about how I let my dog down...she didn't fail I failed her...but in training I would not let her get that far of line and if I knew then what i know now the out come would have been different I'm sure..... she was very well prepared...... ran a great test & both judges told me that her scores coming in where very strong.....
man I feel like SH#!
thanks everyone...

 

[Clayton Evans]

Man, that first Master test you run any dog on is an experience for the dog as well as the handler. My first, I thought I had taught everything that needed to be, wrong I found holes that needed to be plugged so we went home and trained hard, went back and tried again and more holes, trained again, went back and WOW! we did it. from then everything went great. Second dog was more prepared and passed the very first. got up to 4 pass's and wham! all things went south so we are training even harder. Come September we will see if things are straightened out.
There are no give be's in this game and at times they will still be just Dogs doing it thier way as they know when there is no collar attached. Clay

 

[Troopers Mom]

thanks to all the replied......
as you can tell this was my 1st masters test....a day later I'm still thinking about how I let me dog down...she didn't fail I failed her...but in training I would not let her get that far of line and if I knew then what i know now the out come would have been different I'm sure..... she was very well prepared...... ran a great test & both judges told my that her scores coming in where very strong.....
man I feel like SH#!
thanks everyone...

Don't feel bad. The exact same thing happened to one of our dogs this weekend too. What test were you at? Would be interesting if they were at the same test.

Arleen

 

[Stan b]

thanks to all the replied......
as you can tell this was my 1st masters test....a day later I'm still thinking about how I let me dog down...she didn't fail I failed her...but in training I would not let her get that far of line and if I knew then what i know now the out come would have been different I'm sure..... she was very well prepared...... ran a great test & both judges told my that her scores coming in where very strong.....
man I feel like SH#!
thanks everyone...

Don't feel badly!!

It's all part of the journey!!

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

With all due respect, that statement contradicts itself.

Not really.

Lisa