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Discussion starter · #1 ·
How do you get a good off leash heel? Last year when we competed and she was so frickin excited she was everywhere. She tried to go visit.:rolleyes: Have a little over a month before our show and everything is perfect except that. When I go into the fast she goes beserk and gets all happy. Last year we were complimented on her enthusiasm. Not what I was going for! lol My friend's aunt never trains for off leash so they don't know the difference. We only need two passes, the show is four days. I am entering all 4 just to cover my butt.:rolleyes: :D When we heel in the field she has her nose in my hand and stays right there. I do believe that is frowned upon in the ring though. lol Any and all advice welcome! Thanks!
 
Obedience is not my first sport...field is.

So don't tell my OB instructor this....:) but....

I train OB rarely off lead as well. First Novice trial she was in she froze on the about turn and lagged in the off leash heeling portion.

Went to the tennis court that night and did some very low continuous e-collar work when ever she got out of heel position combined with treats and praise. This is a dog that is fully e-collar conditioned so nothing new was being taught. My standard was just upped and reinforced.

She got the point. I have not had to revisit attention heeling with an e-collar since then.

Went three for four in Novice and we are playing in Open currently while training for Utility. She has gone 12 for 12 in Open with all scores in the 190's.
 
I often put a tab on my dog so that I can reach down and grab it, something really light and short. I think if the dog is well versed on lead, transition to off lead should be smooth. We did a lot of opposition work. I have tab on the dog, and my friend will have the end of a long line. Dog and I heel along, friend (walking along with us) gently applies steady pressure to pull dog out of heel position. Grab tab, "NO! HEEL!" and correct dog back into position. "GOOD." Release tab, keep heeling. Repeat. This really gets the dog thinking "OK, I really need to pay attention and heel." Soon dog will be able to pull against the pressure and stay in heel.

Do the same when dog gets excited on the "fast." Have your assistant pull pup out of position when he does this so you can correct and put him back in heel position. I want my dog thinking while he is heeling, not just walking along with me. I want him to be thinking that everything in the ring is a trap that I've set to trick him and he doesn't want to fall for any of it.

BTW, I use opposition for a lot of things in OB. Sit stays, stands, etc.

PM me if you need more ideas.

Good luck!

PS: I would think that the ecollar would be a good tool too, as suggested. I don't CC my dogs to heel, but if you have, that would be a great way.
 
I don't like grab tabs in obedience and I really don't like them for heel off lead in obedience. You start grabbing at the dog and the dog starts trying to get away from you b/c he knows he's gonna get it.

I never practice obedience heeling off leash. Why teach the dog the difference? It'd be like field training without an ecollar.

If your problem is losing her on the fast b/c she gets goofy, then guess what, that's what you need to practice. Rather than correcting her, get her to focus that energy. I teach my guys the fast in two steps. First step is teaching them to break into a run (not trot) when I lean forward (slight lean forward before I take that first fast step is their cue in the ring). I also spend a lot of time teaching them to slow down and end the fast portion. Make it exciting! Break into a run and then use food to keep them in position as you slow back into regular or a halt. Emphasize this and challenge her and make it fun. Make the slow-down be the focus of the fast, rather than the fast itself. To make it harder, ask her to do a fast, slow down, left turn immediately. Keeps that butt in. If she has to think about all of this she won't have time to mess around. Best of luck,
 
I also never train off lead heeling ........ I always heel on lead..... and my dogs heel better off lead than on lead ...... You can always try a fishing line lead or a slip lead which would have less weight on the neck/collar and make it feel to the dog he has no leash on and you can make a correction if need be......

Hope this helps,

Karen
 
I found it helpful to train in locations with lots of distractions. Outside the grocery store, inside Petsmart, at flea markets, outside of sporting events (soccer, little league, etc).

Look for places/situations that will challenge your dog to pay attention to you...or get corrected.
 
I too use the collar for reinforcing heel position whether on or off lead. I have had the excitable factor too, but find my girls are generally better IN the ring when that's a problem vs in training. However, I think the suggestions above will help. Ease into that fast. Then change up and down randomly. Fast/halts help keep their attention usually.

That said, I have a trial in less than 2 wks that I really should be training for too! Ackkk, work is interferring w/ that part of my life! :eek:
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the suggestions. I have problems on the fast on my own (things knock me out) so her goofing off makes it worse. lol She gets "playful" on leash for fast as well. Guess she is not used to it since I don't do it a whole lot. Someone told me to try some organic calming pills. The thought has crossed my mind! lol The ecollar makes her pay attention but she tucks her butt and anticipates a sit command. I don't want to get her hyped up when we practice as she needs the opposite. I will try some of these out. Thanks for the help!
 
Contrary to what everyone else said I always train off leash. I don't give leash corrections so I guess that's why.....

I am more interested in the dogs attention....if they are in perfect position but looking down at the floor that is a problem. If they are not in perfect position I will quick turn or stop to catch them out of position and correct them for that.

I use corrections like a grab between their ears or grabbing a shoulder or hip if its out of place....I grab the peice of body that is not in position. If your dog jumps up at you, try to catch some belly hair or chest hair if you can. I do it WHILE I am heeling I don't stop and make a game out of it. I also try to grab the outside part of the dog. If you grab the parts of the dog close to you they tend to stay away from you.

And if the dog jumps up at your dont say "down" or "off off" or whatever. I pull UP On the collar to show the dog being UP is not what I want. Do really long fasts untill the dog is where you want it and praise and reward. Do circles if you don't have a long straitway.

And make sure to tell your dog when they are correct! Don't just be quiet in training. I am always giving my dogs feedback. Even in the ring between exercizes I heel and praise for good position or attention. You can give them direct eye contact and smile or whisper "good" if you know the judge is behind you.

Some more tips for your fast. I heel really fast...and my fast I am running. If you go so slow on the normal and slow you can loose attention. Sometimes when we are stressed we heel slow or match pace with the dog. The speed can keep your dogs attention. Dont take big steps....just quicken up your pace.

here is video of my heeling.
http://youtu.be/zqsr_AusEXw
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
I wish Corona was that calm with praise. lol Great run, thanks for sharing and for the info!
 
There is a big difference in heeling for field work and heeling for competitive obedience. In field work, most handlers are happy with heel being a relative position somewhere just off the handlers left side. In competitive obedience, heel is an absolute position where the dog's shoulder is in alignment with the handlers hip and the dog within one body's width of the handler's leg.

Many pro obedience trainers have written volumes on training for the precision that competitive obedience requires. Most begin with a structured attention getting techniques to keep the dogs focus on the handler (rather than in the field as for field work). For most retrievers, the focus of the dog's attention should be on the handlers body somewhere between the waist and shoulders. Drills for attention include treat rewards, either spitting or by hand, while the dog is in heel position and the dog's eyes are focused up at the handler. Again, make sure you know the precise location of the heel position so that you can keep the dog in position.

Initial training after the attention drills, will be simple one pace forward drills, keeping the dog's focus on the handler's shoulders. This position can also be lured by treats in the left hand held above the dog's head and out just in front of where the dogs nose should be. Remember, you need to redefine the heel position from an obscure point just off the handlers left side, to an absolute position where the dogs shoulder is adjacent to the handler's leg. All of this should be done with dog on leash such that the dog can be corrected and placed in the correct position. Also the use of a heeling stick is useful to keep the dog's rear in proper position if the dog crabs or butts out. Also make sure that the treats are given directly over from where the dog's nose should be rather than either by your knee (which will encourage crabing) or off the dogs left shoulder. Also make sure the treats are given using the left hand such that the dog's eyes are up and looking at you.

After you get so the dog can do one step, move out to two steps. Varying your speed and length of step. Again, you are trying to get the dog to recognize that you are asking it to maintain an absolute position with respect to the handler. Keep lengthening your distance but mix it up so the dog anticipate how far you are going; 3 steps fast, one step long, two steps slow, one step short, three steps long, etc.

Next come the turns. Do slight curving turns to the left first. It is easier for you to see your dog and make sure it is in place when you curve to the left. During all of this training, the handler must develop a feel of where the dog is by keeping their eyes focused forward. DO NOT KEEP LOOKING BACK OVER YOUR SHOULDER OR UNDER YOUR ARMPIT AT YOUR DOG AS THIS PUTS YOUR SHOULDER ALIGNMENT OFF AND THUS THE DOG'S POSITION WILL BE OFF. Rather keep your focus just in front of your shoes, and if the dog is in position you should just be able to see its eyes. The use of mirrors is also very useful in watching your dog to assure they are in the correct position. You should also begin to measure the dog's position by the feel and action of the leash.

Next come the square corners. This may be something you want to practice without the dog to make sure you can do the same thing every time. Remember you do no want a marching or military square corner, but a natural walking square corner. And you want to do it the same way every time. For right turns, you want to plant your right foot, and then take a half step to the right with your left foot (heel to toe) and then step out with your right foot. This makes a nice smooth corner that is easy for the dog to follow and keep up with. About turns are the hardest as you want to make sure that you do not step out and into your dog, forcing it out of alignment. A good exercise is to practice this without your dog in a parking lot using the lines for guides. Your left foot should start on the line before the about turn and end on the line after the about turn. Not as easy as it sounds, hence the reason to practice it without the dog before you begin to teach it.

As with the others, I rarely do much off lead heeling except for at the trials or matches. And for matches, I generally use a shark line (a braided 4' boot lace attached to a small light weight clasp). Enter the match with both regular leash and shark line attached to collar. When in the ring, remove the leash while holding on to the shark line. This way you still have control of the dog and can give a correction if needed. Also patterns the dog to believe that even after you remove the leash you have control.

Also, remember that for a fast, you do not have to go full out! All that is required is an increased speed such that there is a noticeable increase in the dog's gait. Likewise on the figure eights, you want to keep your gait consistent while the dog's gait increases on the outside portion of the figure eight and decreases on the inside portion.

T. Mac
 
There's your answer right there. You shouldn't expect a dog to do something well off leash that they cannot do on leash. You need to fix the problems with the leash on, and then I suspect the off leash problem will go away too.


Thanks for the suggestions. I have problems on the fast on my own (things knock me out) so her goofing off makes it worse. lol She gets "playful" on leash for fast as well. Guess she is not used to it since I don't do it a whole lot. Someone told me to try some organic calming pills. The thought has crossed my mind! lol The ecollar makes her pay attention but she tucks her butt and anticipates a sit command. I don't want to get her hyped up when we practice as she needs the opposite. I will try some of these out. Thanks for the help!
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
T Mac, thanks for taking the time to write that. I appreciate it. Barb, yes that is where our work is going to start. I believe that if I can get her to calm down and focus on leash it will greatly help off leash if not solve it all together. Thank you all for your replies, I appreciate all of the help!
 
I don't want to get her hyped up when we practice as she needs the opposite. I will try some of these out. Thanks for the help!
IN PRACTICE is where you need to PRACTICE what happens when she gets excited! Keeping her calm and training in a calm mindset does NOTHING for when you waltz in the ring and she gets excited. You will still be completely unprepared. GET HER EXCITED IN TRAINING and then focus her energy into precision!
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
IN PRACTICE is where you need to PRACTICE what happens when she gets excited! Keeping her calm and training in a calm mindset does NOTHING for when you waltz in the ring and she gets excited. You will still be completely unprepared. GET HER EXCITED IN TRAINING and then focus her energy into precision!
How would you go about settling her down though? I mean how would you do it so that it is still a productive session?
 
When she is excited ask for her to do something. Focus the excitement to a toy or food or whatever, she has to do what you ask in order to get the toy. Funnel the excitement into doing what you want to get what she wants (food, toy, play). Trust me it's much better to have an excited dog than a dull one. Check out Bridget Carlsen obedience training, she wants her dogs high as a freakin kite for obedience but that energy is put into effort rather than distractability.
 
Try a shark line. You can buy them at J and J dog supply. Do you train with treats? Treats are a great way to keep your dog with you. Make the reward random and unexpected...it is easier to fade them out later that way. Like RetrieverLuv said, walk quickly! Makes the dog more interested!
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Try a shark line. You can buy them at J and J dog supply. Do you train with treats? Treats are a great way to keep your dog with you. Make the reward random and unexpected...it is easier to fade them out later that way. Like RetrieverLuv said, walk quickly! Makes the dog more interested!

I do train with treats but she is more motivated by praise than food. I will check into the shark line. I do walk as fast, as fast as I can. haha Thanks!
 
I do train with treats but she is more motivated by praise than food. I will check into the shark line. I do walk as fast, as fast as I can. haha Thanks!
Have you ever competed in Rally? It is a great way to get started with Obedience competition. You can praise as much as you want throughout the course. Also, after Rally Novice, you compete off lead. The difference between Rally and Obedience is that while off lead in Rally you can talk, clap, praise, and more to get your dog to stay with you! My point is, it is a great introduction to competitive obedience and off lead healing. I agree with others, if your dog doesn't heal on lead, off lead will not go so well. Good luck to you and your dog!
 
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