[Joe Dutro]

In AKC HT--If you have to shoulder the gun and point at the birds in the air-- How are you NOT pointing out the gun stations to the dog?

Judges please explain.
Joe

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

by the time you shoulder the gun and pretend to shoot the duck at the top of the ark............
the gunning station has already blown a duck call, or the live bird has quacked on it's own.
the bird has been kicked out of a tosser making a "Ka-jang" sound or hand tossed with worker making some guttural noise, "Harrumph"
and a real shot gun has fired, sometimes more than one more than once.
so you ain't pointing out anything new to old' fang!
it is coming to the line and sitting ol' fang looking at gun station one, then moving him and sitting him looking at gun station two, and moving him again to stare at the third.....
Then calling to the judges that you are ready..... that is taboo
　
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[dixidawg]

Depends on the judge. I was told last year that taking one knee and swinging the gun HRC style as the birds were going down was pointing out the stations and I had to remain standing.

Still makes no sense to me. What is the point of shouldering the gun if you are holding it 3 foot above the dogs head? How does that have any influence on the dog? And if it has none, what is the point?

 

[22899]

Depends on the judge. I was told last year that taking one knee and swinging the gun HRC style as the birds were going down was pointing out the stations and I had to remain standing.

Still makes no sense to me. What is the point of shouldering the gun if you are holding it 3 foot above the dogs head? How does that have any influence on the dog? And if it has none, what is the point?

No such thing as HRC style! Safe gun handeling is safe gun handeling. You are sposed to shoot the bird at the top of the Acr in HRC too!!

BIRDS are in the air,,,,, People are on the ground!!

(cept Gooser,, sometimes hes in trees.)

Gooser

 

[dixidawg]

The whole point of HRC is that the dog swings with the gun with no noise makers in the field. That is what I am talking about. AKC judge says I couldn't do that?

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

I thought that the hrc mantra was real hunters testing real hunting dogs in real hunting stuff that is way more real than any other dog retrieving game and they know it because they are real hunters and nobody else is as real as they are, you can tell by the camo!! ???????????????
so
do you sit in your duck blind for hours on end, with your shotgun shouldered?
When you turn to get a coffee it points one way and when you reach for a second duck call it points another?
or when the ducks come in, do you raise you gun, kick off the safety, kill the bird, and lower you gun?
there may be a wee bit of difference between duck hunting and close quarter urban combat.
there may be some who do not know that.
　
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[22899]

I bet he told you you cant point at the station.

I bet if you waited till the FBD station, called,, fired the popper,, lauched the bird, then you shouldered the gun,, and then repeated this action for the rest of the marks,, you would be fine.

What you CANT do,, is after the fbd is on the ground,, level the gun and point it at the station before the bird is in the air. Ya just step up or back on the dog as the attention getting shot or calls are being sounded,, and wait till the bird is IN THE AIR ,, to shoulder the gun. Repete as necessary.

It is pretty entertaining sometimes to watch Judges and Handlers try and figger this all out. Do you sit in a blind with yer gun shouldered all morning waiting for the next bird??Or do you work the bird with a call,, and when the best shot presents itself,, you shoulder the gun and shoot the bird!!

How do you shoot birds when ya hunt??

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

.... Do you sit in a blind with yer gun shouldered all morning waiting for the next bird??Or do you work the bird with a call,, and when the best shot presents itself,, you shoulder the gun and shoot the bird!!??

too funny Gooser,
we type at same time and type the same thing. ;-)
　
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[dixidawg]

Never mind.

 

[22899]

Not to start anything,, but there really isnt anything in the HRC rule book that says you HAVE to sit on a bucket.

I have NEVER shot a duck when I was sitting down or kneeling. In Fact Most guys I hunt with stand to shoot,, so to have a person staying seated or kneeling in close quarters is dangerous IMHO.
We may be sittin on a stump or bench,, but when the money bird presents itself,, I thnk MOST guys stand to shoot.

And YES dogs are well aware of tha barrel a whole 3 feet above their heads..... Cripes they look up to see birds in flight.

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

Never mind.

never do, ask anyone!
I will add, you spend enough time at tests pointing your fully working shotgun directly at your bird tosser. Sooner or later some loud fat red neck may get a bit miffed.
The hypocrisy of some has always made me shake my head. Calling out for all to hear that he gun is safe moments after they sat on their bucket and leveled it right at all the workers in the field one after another.
　
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[22899]

too funny Gooser,
we type at same time and type the same thing. ;-)
　
.

:razz:

It really is kinda comical to watch Judges,, handlers try and figger out this gun stuff.

I ran a Senior HT one day,, and the judge had a course set up to get to the line. He marked when to pick the gun up with a piece of tape on the ground,,,
When to open the action with a piece of tape,, when you could CLOSE the action with a piece of tape on the ground,, and finally how many "counts" you were to make after the bird was in the air to shoulder the gun and shoot!!!:razz: This was a Cabelas Plastic Winchester 21 SXS

I was so F'd up!!! I'm nervouse anyway,, and to all of a sudden have something as simple as the gun become such a problem made me laugh.

Gooser

 

[Thomas D]

From AKC HT Rulebook:
In Senior and Master Tests, handlers shall always carry
and shoulder an empty shotgun except when honoring the
working dog or when running a blind. The gun shall not
be used as a pointing device to direct the dog’s attention
to the bird.

Maybe RHTAC should work on this one next......

(Of course later on in the rulebook it gives judges the option of letting handlers safely put the gun down while running marks.)

I personally don't like kneeling at the dogs side while the birds are going down.

 

[dixidawg]

I personally don't like kneeling at the dogs side while the birds are going down

.


Right. But is it illegal? That was the whole purpose of my question.

 

[Steve Hester]

I thought that the hrc mantra was real hunters testing real hunting dogs in real hunting stuff that is way more real than any other dog retrieving game and they know it because they are real hunters and nobody else is as real as they are, you can tell by the camo!! ???????????????
so
do you sit in your duck blind for hours on end, with your shotgun shouldered?
When you turn to get a coffee it points one way and when you reach for a second duck call it points another?
or when the ducks come in, do you raise you gun, kick off the safety, kill the bird, and lower you gun?
there may be a wee bit of difference between duck hunting and close quarter urban combat.
there may be some who do not know that.
.

I don't know how many HRC tests you've been to, but it's obvious not too many. I have been to more than a few, and your description of them is like none I have ever been to.

 

[Kelly Greenwood]

there may be a wee bit of difference between duck hunting and close quarter urban combat.
there may be some who do not know that.

Not sure there is much difference, public hunting areas ya know. of course ya drop to one knee when ya shoot, makes you a smaller target for the 20 other people that open up on the same birds. Blinds aren't really blinds so much as foxholes. :razz:

 

[Doug Main]

.


Right. But is it illegal? That was the whole purpose of my question.

To me it is. What is the purpose other than to violate this provision?

The gun shall not be used as a pointing device to direct the dog’s attention to the bird.

In AKC tests it is the DOG'S responsibility to mark the bird. It is a philosophical difference. The judges use attention getting devices to help ensure the dog is looking in the right direction. "Marking off the gun" is not being tested.

 

[Thomas D]

.


Right. But is it illegal? That was the whole purpose of my question.

If someone wants to kneel down but keep the gun barrel over the dogs head, fine. But if it at the side of the dogs head and they are pushing them, it then becomes illegal IMO.

Could just set up a remote and solve the problem.

 

[Diane Brunelle]

Never mind.

I knew what you meant, Bob.

 

[Howard N]

shall always carry
and shoulder an empty shotgun except when honoring ...... The gun shall not
be used as a pointing device to direct the dog’s attention
to the bird.

Is this a conflict? Are you supposed to shoulder the gun and point it away from the birds?