Goes back to my theory of more early obedience training for a high, vocal pup than marks. MARKS, MARKS, MARKS are just like giving a kid candy every time they go to school.
Imagine if they started training pup with obedience and very few retrieved marks at home. Marks are a very small part of the 'Balanced' or 'Total' retriever if you will. Many marks can be thrown with very few retrieves in order to teach patience and obedience.
On days that they came to 'school'......more obedience around truck, around other trucks and people. NO CANDY, or I mean MARKS. This sort of 'off site training' goes on several times before an actual MARK is ever thrown for the pup until it is calm and controllable around others.
Walk pup to the line several times just to watch others calmly, so it learns that each trip to line does not get CANDY. Only when pup can sit and watch mark thrown calmly and quietly does it actually get to retrieve.
For dogs who are already out of control going to line and on the line, this will also work wonders. Back to basics to regain control. Dog must learn that they are not in control. Only when they have complied with master's wishes does he get CANDY!
In terms of the part of your post that I bolded, I think about it quite differently. For me, it's not at all about the dog learning that it's not in control. The dog always has a choice, especially when you're standing there on the line or on an honor with the dog off leash. I want my dog to learn that SELF control is the ONLY route to getting the retrieve. I think good training involves enhancing the odds that the dog will make the choice you want. For the very young pup, I don't think of it as obedience, but rather the pup learning that quiet self control is the gateway to what it desires in life. You do this by allowing the pup to make choices and learn that different behavioral choices have different consequences. Of course, you carefully control the consequences so that the pup is reinforced only for the choices you like, and not reinforced for the choices you don't like.
I started playing Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" with my pup the day she came home. Crate Games is a really well thought out protocol for teaching a pup that their behavioral choices have consequences, and that self-control leads to good things. The pup learns that sitting quietly in its crate after the door is opened is what makes its release word happen. You never ask them to sit. You go through a series of steps that conditions the pup to offer a quiet sit. Then, if the pup lunges forward or moves a paw as you're opening the door or after you open it, you simply close the crate door. The pup learns very quickly what it needs to do.
My pup also learned that sitting quietly made me put her food dish on the floor, while bouncing around made it go away; same deal for going outside, getting a toy, and so on. I never asked her to sit, just let her make the choice. So from day 1 the key lesson she was learning was that sitting quietly got her what she wanted. Any other behavior got her nothing. You have to be obsessive about controlling your pup's access to reinforcement, so they're only reinforced for the behavior you like, but it's really not hard. You also need to set and maintain criteria. It's actually fun for the pup, because they learn it's easy to get what they want....all they have to do is sit quietly. They learn quickly because they get immediate feedback on their behavioral choices. You've begun to establish the foundation for self control as a life-long habit.
Everything else my pup has learned has built on the foundation established with these little puppy learning games. I'll admit that what I'm doing is a first-time experiment for me, but I really like the results I'm getting.
