Silver "Labs" and AKC

Terri · Feb 25, 2013

This weekend at an agility trial a woman comes up to me to talk about Labradors. She runs a BFL and I run CFL. She starts telling me she is looking at getting another puppy and would like to run it in agility. She then shows me two pictures of silver "Lab" puppies and tells me she does not know which one to get. I tell her they are not a recognized color. She tells me they are registered as chocolate, but in a couple years the silver color will be recognized and then they will be registered as silver. Has anyone else heard this? She also told me they are DNA tested pure Labs and have all the health clearances. I did not get the name of the breeder, but I told her to go to the shelter and get a puppy, but she told me silver is in high demand and she is going to pay $1,200. for this puppy. I have read stories about these breeders, but is the AKC or Lab parent club really going to recognize this color or is this another selling point??? I know most field people are not interested in silver, but how do the show people feel about the color? Doesn't the parent club make the rules and do both show and field people have to agree on a change?

Terri

Happy Gilmore · Feb 25, 2013

Isn't it crazy people will pay more for silver than chocolate and they'll pay more for red than yellow?

frontier · Feb 25, 2013

Terri said:
This weekend at an agility trial a woman comes up to me to talk about Labradors. She runs a BFL and I run CFL. She starts telling me she is looking at getting another puppy and would like to run it in agility. She then shows me two pictures of silver "Lab" puppies and tells me she does not know which one to get. I tell her they are not a recognized color. She tells me they are registered as chocolate, but in a couple years the silver color will be recognized and then they will be registered as silver. Has anyone else heard this? She also told me they are DNA tested pure Labs and have all the health clearances. I did not get the name of the breeder, but I told her to go to the shelter and get a puppy, but she told me silver is in high demand and she is going to pay $1,200. for this puppy. I have read stories about these breeders, but is the AKC or Lab parent club really going to recognize this color or is this another selling point??? I know most field people are not interested in silver, but how do the show people feel about the color? Doesn't the parent club make the rules and do both show and field people have to agree on a change?

Terri

this is what is on the AKC Labrador Retriever Club's web site about silver labs
http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages/show_detail_news.php?nid=3

blindfaith · Feb 25, 2013

Boy does this sound familiar! In 1991 a guy who bought a started Lab from me told me he was going to get a silver and then the same conversation....in two years they would be a registered color...I offered to bet...he did not take me on..and here we are today...round and round!

Terri · Feb 25, 2013

A part of me wants to see her this weekend and give her a print out from the AKC Retriever Labrador Clubs web site, but I might feel better to just bet her big money. I hate to see people get burned, but sometimes when I have tried to help I just feel the heat. Most people have to learn the hard way.

Terri

knash3 · Feb 25, 2013

Weimerdor?

jb504079 · Feb 25, 2013

Here's my question, and it may be a dumb one.....but if you can register a "silver" lab as a chocolate, what's the difference? AKC is recognizing the animal, just not as a "silver" lab. Can someone explain this?

mwk56 · Feb 25, 2013

Registering "silvers" as chocolates is misrepesentation. It is not a muted chocolate...as stated on the LRC website, the general concensus is that they were cross-bred with Weims and are not purebred.

There is no genetic test avaialble yet to test a dog for purity--we can't run blood samples and say this is a Lab, this is a crossbred, this is a boxer, etc. I read somewhere that this testing is on the horizon, but have no idea if/when it will really happen.

AKC does not monitor these types of things. It is up to the parent club of the breed. If someone marks "chocolate" on the registration papers, there is no way for AKC to know it isn't a chocolate.

Meredith

jb504079 · Feb 25, 2013

mwk56 said:
Registering "silvers" as chocolates is misrepesentation. It is not a muted chocolate...as stated on the LRC website, the general concensus is that they were cross-bred with Weims and are not purebred.

There is no genetic test avaialble yet to test a dog for purity--we can't run blood samples and say this is a Lab, this is a crossbred, this is a boxer, etc. I read somewhere that this testing is on the horizon, but have no idea if/when it will really happen.

AKC does not monitor these types of things. It is up to the parent club of the breed. If someone marks "chocolate" on the registration papers, there is no way for AKC to know it isn't a chocolate.

Meredith

Gotcha....thanks. So, you're saying somewhere in the dog's line, a labrador was bred with a Weim? Know the color of the dog is recessive, but I wonder if it really comes from Weims??? Interesting.....

mwk56 · Feb 25, 2013

Technically, I do not think there is a "dilute" gene in Labradors, so the only way to get "sliver" or "charcoal" is cross-breeding. Here is the best color genetics explanation for Labs I have ever found:

http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html

Meredith

Good Dogs · Feb 25, 2013

Was judging a junior HT a couple of years ago. Guy brought what he said was a "silver lab" to the line. Sorry. I know what labs are supposed to look like, and I know what Wiemers look like. If there was any lab blood in that dog it did not get to his body structure, his head or his eyes. And the dog had no clue what to do with a bird. That was the only time I was happy to fail a dog. It did not belong there. But that did not stop the guy from trying to sell the dog's "qualities" to anybody gullible enough to listen.

Hunt'EmUp · Feb 25, 2013

jb504079 said:
Gotcha....thanks. So, you're saying somewhere in the dog's line, a labrador was bred with a Weim? Know the color of the dog is recessive, but I wonder if it really comes from Weims??? Interesting.....

At this point the cross was probably so far back that it would be hard to find genetically in any case, the kennel that housed both Labs and Weim where such a cross might've accidentally happened if it happened at all, was back in the 1940's. Unless people are doing it again for marketing

That's a lot of generations of breeding back to pure lab stock for one little recessive to get lost in a bunch of different lines without breeders knowing it, if it even came from a cross, and wasn't a hidden gene in original lines. Whatever the Lab clubs stance on it, for conformation etc. I'd assume they'll be considered a fault , not to standard and eliminated from show, however Show doesn't have the same pull in the pet nor performance world. So even if the coloration is considered a fault, it doesn't stop them from being bred, doesn't stop them from being registered, and doesn't keep them out of performance events. All they can do is prevent them from being registered as Silver, because Silver is not a recognized color in the Lab, unless the Lab club chooses to make it one, or the Lab club-AKC takes a more active stance to eliminate it from registration. I don't see that happening

This is very akin to breeding Dudley's they are a fully registrable Lab, with a dis-qualifying fault, doesn't stop them from being produced, and bred with full papers, in a pet or performance home.

Nicole · Feb 25, 2013

The show people feel the same about it as anyone who cares about the breed does... that akc really dropped the ball when they went out to examine the kennel producing them and allowing them to be registered as chocolate. Anyone with any ability to see type can see the weim in these dogs and not just the color.

The cockapoo people have been saying they're going to be an akc recognized breed since the 70s... That'll happen before the LRC recognizes silver labs.

jeff evans · Feb 25, 2013

Nicole said:
The show people feel the same about it as anyone who cares about the breed does... that akc really dropped the ball when they went out to examine the kennel producing them and allowing them to be registered as chocolate. Anyone with any ability to see type can see the weim in these dogs and not just the color.

The cockapoo people have been saying they're going to be an akc recognized breed since the 70s... That'll happen before the LRC recognizes silver labs.

If I understand this correctly..., the AKC visited a "silver lab" breeder and after examining their "SILVER" color decided that they could be registered as chocolate? Ahh, silver/chocolate same color, apples/oranges same thing? That makes as much sense as American politics in 2013! Slightly off topic, when my dad was a kid he wanted a paint/pinto quarter horse, he had a palomino, so one day after school he grabbed a can of brown and black paint and commenced to "paint" himself a pinto. More I think of it maybe it's not off topic, looked like a pinto but sure as he!! wasn't

Jen Marenich · Feb 26, 2013

May be a bit off the subject, but I know someone who purchased a female black lab puppy from a litter sired by a "Silver" lab. She thought this was a big deal to brag about. The dog is almost 100 lbs and is very tall. I've not measured her, but I'd guess at least 28" at the withers. Very leggy... looks like mixed with Great Dane! I also met a "silver" lab puppy this past summer. Owner told me he had to be on a waiting list for 3 years to get a "silver" from the breeder. I bet for how much he spent he probably could have actually got a dog with pretty good breeding.... Don't even get me started ranting about the price and poor breeding of doodles!!!

copterdoc · Feb 26, 2013

If you repeat a lie enough, people will start to believe it.

Copy this, and paste it in a google search. That'll bring up all the "silver" Lab breeders that you would ever want to find.

In 1987 we conducted an inquiry into the breeding of the litters that contained the dogs that were registered as silver and one of our representatives was sent to observe several of the dogs that had been registered as silver. Color photographs of these dogs were forwarded to the office of the American Kennel Club where the staff of the AKC and the representative of the Labrador Retriever Club of America examined them. Both parties were satisfied that there was no reason to doubt that the dogs were purebred Labrador Retrievers, however both parties felt that the dogs were incorrectly registered as silver. Since the breed standard describes chocolate as ranging in shade from Sedge to Chocolate, it was felt that the dogs could more accurately be described as chocolate than as silver."

Written by Robert Young of the AKC 3/27/00

Robert Young, is/was a photographer for the AKC.

luvalab · Feb 26, 2013

If you enjoy the person, don't criticize the dog. Most people who love a dog love it in spite of someone's expert opinion, not because of it.

Lord knows it's true for me. I could rattle off a million faults, some that I even agree with. Dog people are pretty darn critical, and everyone's an expert.

i have decided to spend less time criticizing other dogs, less time defending mine, and more time on world peace.

Silver Lab? That's nice. Dorkie-poo? Sounds interesting.

BuddyJ · Feb 26, 2013

jb504079 said:
Here's my question, and it may be a dumb one.....but if you can register a "silver" lab as a chocolate, what's the difference? AKC is recognizing the animal, just not as a "silver" lab. Can someone explain this?

If you read the post , the silver color only comes from a Weimaramer cross, so even if someone gets it by akc it still isn't helping or improving the lab as a breed. IMO

jb504079 · Feb 26, 2013

BuddyJ said:
If you read the post , the silver color only comes from a Weimaramer cross, so even if someone gets it by akc it still isn't helping or improving the lab as a breed. IMO

Oh I agree with you. Just thought since "silver" isn't a recognized color of the breed, AKC would do a little better job of screening registration.

gdluck · Feb 26, 2013

AKC is allowing them to be papered as chocolate. The governing bodies have accepted them as purebred labrador retrievers. If you have a problem with "silver" labs your problem is with the AKC and LRC.

There was a guy that sold PET ROCKS. Yes, pet rocks. I don't hate him because he found buyers and made millions of $$, I'm just jealous I wasn't smart enough to do it. Then there is the Sham Wow, Thighmaster, and the most recent craze "Longitude" pills...............buyers are the only way sellers are successfull.

Silver "Labs" and AKC

Terri

Happy Gilmore

frontier

blindfaith

Terri

knash3

jb504079

mwk56

jb504079

mwk56

Good Dogs

Hunt'EmUp

Nicole

jeff evans

Jen Marenich

copterdoc

luvalab

BuddyJ

jb504079

gdluck

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