Hunt test and pros

John Robinson · Apr 23, 2013

counciloak said:
Great Idea!

No it's a terrible idea. Charging double for absentee owners will cut your entries down to the point where your hunt test will die. You need more entries, not less.

At the end of every hunt test and field trial, as they are giving out ribbons, they thank the judges, and thank the workers who put on the event, everyone claps and that is about all the recognition you are going to get. Hopefully that little recognition and the feeling you get from busting your but to put on a successful event are enough to keep you coming back for more, because that's pretty much how any event from a DU Banquet to a fishing derby works, it's the 80-20 rule.

JMO,

John

paul young · Apr 23, 2013

mostlygold said:
When people use a pro to train and run their dogs, there is no impetus for them to join a club. Therefore many of these folks don't, which means that other than writing a check they don't participate in or support our sport. This is, as Paul pointed out, where the problem comes in.

As more and more people opt for this approach to the HT game, there are less folks out there putting on these tests and those that do year after year burn out. The folks putting all the effort into putting on tests for those that don't or won't pitch in find they have even less time to train their own dogs which is the whole reason they got involved. Many clubs don't have resources to hire help for the tests and IMO you are going to see many clubs either going under or just not having tests.

FT will survive because they have always been the playground for the well to do, while HT were supposed to be for the average working person.

Dawn

Dawn,

Sometimes I feel like we live in a parallel universe.

Shoot, never mind the pros not helping out, we have club members that do that.

I will never forget you addressing the "ninja gallery" on that very hot Sunday afternoon a couple years back! Hee-Hee! If it wasn't for you and Susan, we'd still be trying to finish that test!-Paul

rbr · Apr 23, 2013

The reality is: HTs would not exist without participating pros.

ros obviously can't be expected to help because they are too busy running dogs
: Not everyone will volunteer
: If someone chooses the let the pro run their dog it's noone elses business
: The complaint that pros have an advantage is nonsense, it's a test not a competition
: As an amature who has never had a pro trained dog the titles I earn are far more gratifying
having the knowledge that it was earned by my dog and myself.

Bert

EdA · Apr 23, 2013

mostlygold said:
FT will survive because they have always been the playground for the well to do

someone forget to tell me and some others I know, still waiting for my ship to come in

Scum Frog · Apr 23, 2013

John Robinson said:
No it's a terrible idea. Charging double for absentee owners will cut your entries down to the point where your hunt test will die. You need more entries, not less.

At the end of every hunt test and field trial, as they are giving out ribbons, they thank the judges, and thank the workers who put on the event, everyone claps and that is about all the recognition you are going to get. Hopefully that little recognition and the feeling you get from busting your but to put on a successful event are enough to keep you coming back for more, because that's pretty much how any event from a DU Banquet to a fishing derby works, it's the 80-20 rule.

JMO,

John

It works in other sports. The same 80/20 rule applies in most of everything. I didn't say charge double. There is a happy medium to be found between running your dog and helping out with the HT vs just running your dog and not being there or just sitting on your arse. Like I said, this has been implemented in many other sports that hold similar type events.

I don't really care, don't run HT's at this point. But by the sounds of it, your HT's need some help! Same old guys running them...they won't live forever! Todays society, the 40 under crowd, aren't going to stand being the 20%ers for too long before they say screw this!

kjrice · Apr 23, 2013

You do not need large entries to survive. Making money is easy but having enough good help is not.

Lonnie Spann · Apr 23, 2013

I don't care how many dogs anyone brings to a HT, be it pro or amateur.

Requiring dog owners to participate/volunteer? That will NEVER work. That would be the first step in eliminating pros.

When I go to a HT I go to 1) enjoy myself, 2) test my dog, 3) watch other dogs perform.

I think when a club hosts a HT then the hosting club should have all of their ducks in a row before hosting said event i.e. having secured all of the labor necessary to host said event BEFORE posting premiums. That being said, I am a member of two different clubs and I don't mind pitching in and helping out with anything that my limited mental capacity is capable of doing. I am always willing to assist with my clubs or any club where I am present.

Lonnie Spann

RookieTrainer · Apr 23, 2013

I had the opportunity to train with a legendary figure in the retriever world last weekend. I learned a lot about training a dog for sure. What I was most impressed with was this gentleman's observation that the dog games need a lot more entry and participation from younger people or they will cease to exist. That's a HUGE part of the reason he was spending his Saturday and Sunday fooling around with me rather than sitting in his recliner watching TV.

IMHO, what it really comes down to is are you in it for the dogs or are you in it for your ego? This is overly simplistic, but those who are in it for the dogs are like Lonnie Spann and they will throw in and help in any way they can. If you are in it for your ego, you will write the checks and get the ribbons with as little personal investment as possible.

This is NOT a rant against the wealthy; in fact, it appears to me that personal wealth has very little to do with the decision except for whether you can write the checks in the first place. This is just my opinion. YMMV.

Happy Gilmore · Apr 23, 2013

When people expect the 3 people totalling 40 dogs to "make or break" a hunt test bank account on a single event there is a serious instability with what needs to be considered a business model. Folks do this willy-nilly short sighted accounting and spending in clubs then one weekend two pro's don't show up and there isn't that big roll in the account anymore.

Thomas D · Apr 23, 2013

rbr said:
The reality is: HTs would not exist without participating pros. ros obviously can't be expected to help because they are too busy running dogs
: Not everyone will volunteer
: If someone chooses the let the pro run their dog it's noone elses business
: The complaint that pros have an advantage is nonsense, it's a test not a competition
: As an amature who has never had a pro trained dog the titles I earn are far more gratifying
having the knowledge that it was earned by my dog and myself.

Bert

How many really believe this? It's more like HT would not exist without working ams!

Kevinismybrother · Apr 23, 2013

When the club needs that extra winger or holding blind, or maybe even a four wheeler to run birds around or move equipment and the "big bad PRO" with 12-15 dogs running says "here use mine" I think that should be apprecited and not expected. And I can think of more than one event where the pro has come up to help with moving equipment or offered one of their helpers to throw or plant a blind too. I see the pros being very accomodating when they are able and not running to 3 different venues to run dogs because the marshalls need them at all 3 spots at once.

i_willie12 · Apr 23, 2013

Thomas D said:
How many really believe this? It's more like HT would not exist without working ams!

Clubs make their $$ off the pro's and their dogs! Joe blow entry would keep test up and running but Pro's bringing 8-20 dogs makes the bank!

Duckquilizer · Apr 23, 2013

How about this? Clubs like Pro's to bring thier client's money and clubs need the locals to manage the clubs tests. Its a SYMBIOTIC relationship. No Pros, less tests...no test, less Pros.

kjrice · Apr 23, 2013

i_willie12 said:
Clubs make their $$ off the pro's and their dogs! Joe blow entry would keep test up and running but Pro's bringing 8-20 dogs makes the bank!

Sure if all you do is to make money solely off entries.

Happy Gilmore · Apr 23, 2013

Kevinismybrother said:
When the club needs that extra winger or holding blind, or maybe even a four wheeler to run birds around or move equipment and the "big bad PRO" with 12-15 dogs running says "here use mine" I think that should be apprecited and not expected. And I can think of more than one event where the pro has come up to help with moving equipment or offered one of their helpers to throw or plant a blind too. I see the pros being very accomodating when they are able and not running to 3 different venues to run dogs because the marshalls need them at all 3 spots at once.

I think most all do the same. I don't think there is any discussion that they don't work and help "when they can". They are getting paid big bucks to run and concentrate on the dogs. The owners of those dog have expectations of ribbons at the end of the day.

yellow machine · Apr 23, 2013

I will throw birds all day just to get the chance to learn and advance. I learn from just watching and hanging out. Keep the pros! My god we need their money!

Happy Gilmore · Apr 23, 2013

yellow machine said:
I will throw birds all day just to get the chance to learn and advance. I learn from just watching and hanging out. Keep the pros! My god we need their money!

Not sure why when the discussion comes to Pro trainers that all of a sudden everyone gets all up tight that folks are bad talking the pros or, trying to eliminate them from the sport. That isn't going to happen and I don't know anyone who doesn't want them running dogs.

What I've seen and others followed comments that more individual owners need to get involved. The pro's don't need to go away, they need to bring some owners or, get the owners handling their own dogs more often.

Howard N · Apr 23, 2013

I will throw birds all day just to get the chance to learn and advance.

How will you feel after 20 years of doing it?

There comes a time when the best motivated will burn out from it.

Cedarswamp · Apr 23, 2013

I've seen pros shoot flyers at the hunt tests...on multiple occasions.

Larry Housman · Apr 23, 2013

Hunt tests started in the early 80's without pros. They grew without pros. At some point people wanted success with their dogs that couldn't achieve on their own, and a market for pros was born. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just a thing. If people had the time, skill and desire to do it themselves they would and save the money, but it's a hard thing to do and I well understand that. Pros aren't going away and there is no reason they should.

But that said, to state that tests wouldn't happen without the pros money is just plain wrong. Without the pros money the clubs would have to rework their budgets, but many clubs across the country are doing just fine with minimal pro involvement - good planning and management will make up for a lot of ill-advised spending.

I've always felt that there is a social contract between clubs, that sometimes my club puts on a test and i work my butt off, but then next week i go to someone else's test and they work their butt off for me. I'll pitch in if I have to, but for the most part I expect the people that I threw birds for last week to throw them for me this week. Where I have a problem, which I think is the heart of this discussion, is the large number of people that never get involved with a club and are always expecting someone else to throw birds for their dogs because they write a check to the pro and that's their involvement. As many have said, the pros themselves are giving back - it's absentee owners who aren't giving back to the sport in general.

Hunt test and pros

John Robinson

paul young

rbr

EdA

Scum Frog

kjrice

Lonnie Spann

RookieTrainer

Happy Gilmore

Thomas D

Kevinismybrother

i_willie12

Duckquilizer

kjrice

Happy Gilmore

yellow machine

Happy Gilmore

Howard N

Cedarswamp

Larry Housman

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities