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The Qualifying Stake

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Jennifer Henion

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have the goal of entering the Qualifying stake in the spring. After reading the rule book and viewing a few Qual threads, I'm still wondering how they're typically structured.

Here's what I've garnered so far:

• Triple marks with at least one retired gun
• Honor
• Diversion birds are allowed as are diversion crates, guns, bird bags
• Land Blind
• Water Blind

Can you share your experiences with me? Are there shoreline blinds, delayed multiples with blinds to run before getting memory birds? Wipeout marks?

Are Quals as "busy" as a difficult Master test? Yes I will try to watch a couple, but they're usually in conflict with the derby.

Thanks,
Jen
 
#2 ·
First series is usually a triple on land, but sometimes a double. Sometimes a retired gin. Sometimes not. I have seen 2 recently that had a triple with double retired.

Second series is land blind. Could be through old fall, or near flyer statiom from first series (with flyer crates still there.

Third series is usually water blind. Depending on water, could be down the shore. Sould be over a point. Could be just open water.

Fouth series is water marking. Could be double or triple. Could be with retired gun or not. Depending on water cod be bridge bird.

There will be honor in one of the marking series
 
#3 ·
Double retired Triples on land and water. May as well throw one off the line and make your training all quads with multiethnic retireds
 
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#5 ·
Jennifer Henion said:
I have the goal of entering the Qualifying stake in the spring. After reading the rule book and viewing a few Qual threads, I'm still wondering how they're typically structured.

Here's what I've garnered so far:

• Triple marks with at least one retired gun
• Honor
• Diversion birds are allowed as are diversion crates, guns, bird bags
• Land Blind
• Water Blind

Can you share your experiences with me? Are there shoreline blinds, delayed multiples with blinds to run before getting memory birds? Wipeout marks?

Are Quals as "busy" as a difficult Master test? Yes I will try to watch a couple, but they're usually in conflict with the derby.

Thanks,
Jen
Click to expand...

Sorry that no one is willing to answer your question directly.

Marks - doubles or triples. Maybe no, one or two retired. Typically, wide open.
Blind run in conjunction with marks for efficiency sake (too hard to get Pros, and Ams in the Open to get to Q 4 times)
Generally, blind off to side. I have not seen poison bird in Q, but am certain someone will want to try it. Have not seen blinds tight to bird crates, sacks, etc. Have seen blinds 20 yards off back side of flyer guns.
Water - on/off prominent point, or get in water stay in water close to shore
Have not seen wipeout birds. Have seen breaking birds (why?)


 
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#6 ·
There is no comparison to a Master test.I have seen Quals where the pros said the first series was harder than the Open or Am.Typically the blinds aren't quite as technical as AA stakes but expect and train to the next level up.
Oh and no bows or neckerchiefs are allowed. :)
 
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#7 ·
They never conflict with the derby, two different days and the next will not start untill the first has finished, because alot of times it's the same set of judges...

Are Quals as "busy" as a difficult Master test? Yes I will try to watch a couple, but they're usually in conflict with the derby.
Click to expand...
Are they as busy?? Probably not but you need a better "trained" dog to be competitive in a Q than a Master, maybe not a better dog but a better "trained" dog.. With that being said I really enjoy judging Q's not so much Derby's..
 
#9 ·
Jen

I will be running both my dogs at the Corning trial the same weekend you do. I started out with my first lab running hunt tests but we are now running in the amateur and her son is running in the derby. I would be glad to share info with you if I see you that weekend.
 
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#10 ·
I am truly impressed that in only a few short months and a handful of field trials Jennifer has become a minor stake expert.
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all of the information. Very helpful stuff. The Qual does conflict with Derby in my case. This time, the Qual is on Friday and Derby is on Saturday late morn, so I won't be there on Friday to see the Qual. In other cases, I was too scared to leave the Derby to watch the Qual when I could have.

Jeff E, I will have my clicker in my pocket and no one will know but you and me! But I will keep the pumpkin bandana in the car.

DEFINITELY not a minor stakes expert. And I have 6 months to train toward Qual. Luckily our climate is conducive to year round training.
 
#13 ·
Jennifer Henion said:
Thanks for all of the information. Very helpful stuff. The Qual does conflict with Derby in my case. This time, the Qual is on Friday and Derby is on Saturday late morn, so I won't be there on Friday to see the Qual. In other cases, I was too scared to leave the Derby to watch the Qual when I could have.

Jeff E, I will have my clicker in my pocket and no one will know but you and me! But I will keep the pumpkin bandana in the car.

DEFINITELY not a minor stakes expert. And I have 6 months to train toward Qual. Luckily our climate is conducive to year round training.
Click to expand...
Isnt that concealed and carry in your "hood" ?
 
#15 ·
No to argue with Ted but I have had quals this year which were tight and a blind behind the flier crates. Last trial retired two in both the land and water series. Also had an in line triple with a spread of at least 200 yards between birds and a 275+ yard middle retired bird.
 
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#16 ·
Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:
No to argue with Ted but I have had quals this year which were tight and a blind behind the flier crates. Last trial retired two in both the land and water series. Also had an in line triple with a spread of at least 200 yards between birds and a 275+ yard middle retired bird.
Click to expand...
When I am setting up a Q on the first series, I am hoping that there will be no retired guns. However, I may retire one or even two, if I need to, but two is very rare. I don't want them too tight, but again, a hip pocket is fairly standard in a Q around these parts and while I prefer not to, I have done it. I will run behind flyer crate if I need to on the land blind, but can usually find something better. So much depends on what the judges are given to work with and often the good grounds go to the AA stakes and the Q is run in the same place the derby was run the day before, so you are limited.

A Q blind, though is not an AA blind. If for example, you run tight to the flyer, I am not worried if Rover sucks over there (same goes for avoiding cover, running down a road, etc., since that is why they are there in the first place) but I want to see the handler control the dog and recover from whatever it is. On a water blind, I will likely set up a long (certainly by HT standards, but not by AA standards) angle entry but it won't be a tiny little sliver of water. It should be fairly black and white. I may ask that the dog get on and off a point or swim by one (but very rarely both) but again it will be more black and white than an AA blind. The line will either take much more of a point or go further off a point than an AA blind.
 
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#18 · (Edited)
DoubleHaul said:
When I am setting up a Q on the first series, I am hoping that there will be no retired guns. However, I may retire one or even two, if I need to, but two is very rare. I don't want them too tight, but again, a hip pocket is fairly standard in a Q around these parts and while I prefer not to, I have done it. I will run behind flyer crate if I need to on the land blind, but can usually find something better. So much depends on what the judges are given to work with and often the good grounds go to the AA stakes and the Q is run in the same place the derby was run the day before, so you are limited.

A Q blind, though is not an AA blind. If for example, you run tight to the flyer, I am not worried if Rover sucks over there (same goes for avoiding cover, running down a road, etc., since that is why they are there in the first place) but I want to see the handler control the dog and recover from whatever it is. On a water blind, I will likely set up a long (certainly by HT standards, but not by AA standards) angle entry but it won't be a tiny little sliver of water. It should be fairly black and white. I may ask that the dog get on and off a point or swim by one (but very rarely both) but again it will be more black and white than an AA blind. The line will either take much more of a point or go further off a point than an AA blind.
Click to expand...
Give a situation in the Q where a double retired is necessary or even at most times a single retired is necessary. I understand you have to work with what the club gives for a fields and water but with enough thought and consideration a setup itself (terrain, cover, placement of guns, direction of marks in relation to other gun stations, etc) can be "meaty" enough to not have to retire 2 birds in a Q let alone 1 retired most times. It is definitely becoming the norm to retire in the Q though, so the expectation and training mentality should be beyond that level for sure.
 
#19 ·
Lucky Number Seven said:
Give a situation in the Q where a double retired is necessary or even at most times a single retired is necessary. I understand you have to work with what the club gives for a fields and water but with enough thought and consideration a setup itself (terrain, cover, placement of guns, direction of marks in relation to other gun stations, etc) can be "meaty" enough to not have to retire 2 birds in a Q let alone 1 retired most times. It is definitely becoming the norm to retire in the Q though, so the expectation and training mentality should be beyond that level for sure.
Click to expand...
Without showing you the grounds and the conditions in question, it would not really be very helpful. As I said, I prefer not to do it, but have had to do so and I think that anyone running a Q should expect to see this. I am perfectly willing to admit that you are a better judge than I am, though.
 
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#20 · (Edited)
DoubleHaul said:
Without showing you the grounds and the conditions in question, it would not really be very helpful. As I said, I prefer not to do it, but have had to do so and I think that anyone running a Q should expect to see this. I am perfectly willing to admit that you are a better judge than I am, though.
Click to expand...
Not questioning anything of being better of any sort. Just really hard to see the need to have to retire two guns. I would never expect a double retired in Q to be honest.
 
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