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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Gooser has been away from HT now for quite sometime....

Even when I was running them some 5 yrs ago or so,,, I was surprised at AKC hunt tests, that MOST of the Senior marks , the gunners were hidden behind winger hides, There were never any exposed gunners in the field..

The tests I witnessed Many many moons before this,, there WERE gunners exposed in the field, thowing hand thrown dead birds and flyers.
Just 2 gunners and chairs,,

I know I am not loosing my mind, because LONG ago, you needed to train for a retired gun in Senior.

Memory bird Gunner would step out, from lets say a tree row,, throw and shoot a dead bird,, then as the dog was on its way to the other "Go" bird,, (usually the flyer) the Memory bird gunner would step back into the tree row and retire..

Long ago,, were not guns in AKC HUNT TESTS exposed, and NOT behind hides??

If there has been a change,,, WHY??
 
#2 ·
I don't ever recall gunners being "exposed" in a HT other than maybe the live flyer. I do recall holding blinds used to "hide" the gunners and dogs recognizing them....almost as good as a gunner being exposed!
 
#3 ·
I have only been doing this stuff maybe 7 years, but I can only remember retired guns in Master, and that about twice. Might be a regional thing? Or probably a "goes back farther than I do" thing.
 
#4 ·
I've run HT for 13 years in WI/MN and some in MI, guns have always been hidden. Flyer station generally walks out to throw/shoot, sometimes other stations will walk out and throw, but they all "retire" and are hidden, sometimes an obvious holding blind, more often natural cover. I don't recall seeing any gunners remaining visible, including JH.
 
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#5 ·
Sorry Gooser, I just go back 8 years, but never saw an exposed gun in the field, Junior or Senior. More important to me, is that they do not use any kind of call or signalling device once you get to Senior, so that dog MUST move with you to see the birds fall. That is what failed us Sunday, dog would not come off first mark and never saw flyer!
 
#7 ·
Goose,

3 years ago at our Advanced Judges Seminar, this is 1/2 day classroom and 1 1/2 day field learning, the AKC reps made it very clear they did not want to see a holding blind in the middle of the field with out cover. These reps were tearing down limbs and pulling tumble weeds and placing them all around the holding blind just as if you were hunting. They were stressing total concealment of holding blinds, no square shapes in the field.

Also the rule change on the wake up that went into effect 2 +- years ago, the station must be completely concealed behind a hill, tree or whatever bale of hay so that the thrown bird is a total surprise to the dog, thus the elimination of the duck call for an attention getter.
 
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
I understand what the rules are now, and realize they have been incorporated somewhat recently.

I am talking about the early 1980's or so.

I don't recall ( prolly just my old man memory) gunners being hidden behind blinds. In fact, like I said before, I remember shooting flyers at tests, and just sitting down in chairs that were visible from the line.
I also remember throwing a dead bird with me being visible from the line, then after dog was sent of a go bird, instructed to step back into cover to hide, thus making the mark a retired gunner.


Its prolly dimensia on my part.

I also remember seeing Robert Redford in the mirror
 
#9 ·
MooseGooser said:
I understand what the rules are now, and realize they have been incorporated somewhat recently.

I am talking about the early 1980's or so.

I don't recall ( prolly just my old man memory) gunners being hidden behind blinds. In fact, like I said before, I remember shooting flyers at tests, and just sitting down in chairs that were visible from the line.
I also remember throwing a dead bird with me being visible from the line, then after dog was sent of a go bird, instructed to step back into cover to hide, thus making the mark a retired gunner.


Its prolly dimensia on my part.

I also remember seeing Robert Redford in the mirror
Click to expand...
Maybe you were thinking of the Lab Working Certificates with 30 yard retrieves?
 
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#10 ·
Mike in my part of the country a typical Senior Ht is a 35 to 40 yard walk up with the only sound being the winger going off and a shot. The second land mark is usually a flyer thrown from a brushed up holding lind with duck call, a throw and a shot. Usually a diversion shot is fired as the dog is on the way back with the memory bird to set up the blind. The honor is sometimes done at land but usually at water. The second series is usually the water series. When the handler calls for the birds the usual sequence is a QUACK<QUACK, throw and the shot while bird is in the air. Pick up birds , deliver to hand and run your blind and pick up your ribbon...)
 
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#11 ·
I can't go back to the 1980s but in the mid 90s the guns were retired. For live flyers the gunners might be exposed when shooting but would either back into the brush or sit behind a blind after the shot.
 
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#12 · (Edited)
Gooser,

I'm here for ya...I do remember those early days and the guns were exposed, poorly hidden, retired and in holding blinds in the middle of a field..

When I first started kickin around here at RTF I posted some threads and replies to the beginning of the gun dog tests..

It was my opinion then as now, the early gun dog tests were mini field trials in camo.
That met some resistance from those that can't remember the twentieth century..
Rest assured your mind isn't failing you.....

The sad fact is most of us (myself included) don't play this game for decades without a break.

anyways I know that there a few folks on RTF that do remember those tests... Give the thread a chance they'll chime in..
 
#13 ·
Ran my first hunt test (NAHRA) in 84 and in the intervening years I can't remember a test that at least a rudimentary effort at concealing a gun station. This is not to indicate that there were multiple gunner cranking in a new one whilst my dawg was trying her best to remember where they hid the chickens.

Thinking that refreshing your memory is going to require electricity regards

Bubba
 
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#14 ·
Bubba,

this is not intended to start a debate (although it may) I gathered Gooser was talking about The early days of the AKC tests......

IMHO there was a big difference between NAHRA and AKC gun dog tests..... In the beginning .....
 
#16 ·
2tall said:
Sorry Gooser, I just go back 8 years, but never saw an exposed gun in the field, Junior or Senior. More important to me, is that they do not use any kind of call or signalling device once you get to Senior, so that dog MUST move with you to see the birds fall. That is what failed us Sunday, dog would not come off first mark and never saw flyer!
Click to expand...
They stopped duck calls in the Senior HT? wow...
 
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#17 ·
To qualify my last post I felt that NAHRA was a bunch of "good ole boys" testing their meat dogs..

The AKC tests seemed to judged by field trialers.

The difference being in where each set of judges came from. ie field trials or Richard Walters writings in GunDog Magazine.

Right, wrong, or indifferent that seemed to be how the early tests were differentiated....

Although my memory maybe fading too :)
 
Discussion starter · #18 · (Edited)
I was strictly talking AKC hunt tests.

I have been really surprised how similar the more recent tests I have seen are to ( god help me) HRC.

Back when I was younger , an AKC set of judges wanted a person who could throw! They had to have an arm! I know for a fact , that Lainee is about to fall of the sofa laughing, but Gooser was asked often to throw for Master, cause I had an arm!

They wanted(demanded) the dog SEE the bird! They got his attention first with a call , or Bubba yellin "there goes one" then they shot the bird at the top of a very high arching throw.

They threw a dog a MARK!!!!!

They had me out in the open with a chair and bag of birds. I was dressed in Camo most of the time, at least a drab color, and the Judge wanted that bird thrown high in the air, and have it fall in the exact same place each time. Ya hadn't better frock up the throw either!

Most always, you would then sit down in your chair and watch the dog work.
 
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