My 2yo YLM is doing great this year during duck season but he has some trouble searching for cripples/left birds. If he marks them no problem and if I mark them no problem but have 2-3 go down and not getting an exact mark on it or if is not dead is what I am running into. Can walk him out to area but he doesn't seem to search for it. Can literally walk him on top of bird until he sees it won't even know its there. Any help on getting him to hunt em up.
Teaching a dog to use its nose?
Brettttka
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My 2yo YLM is doing great this year during duck season but he has some trouble searching for cripples/left birds. If he marks them no problem and if I mark them no problem but have 2-3 go down and not getting an exact mark on it or if is not dead is what I am running into. Can walk him out to area but he doesn't seem to search for it. Can literally walk him on top of bird until he sees it won't even know its there. Any help on getting him to hunt em up.
I'm no expert or pro, but I'm also going through the same training with a new hunting dog - also a 2YO YLM.
Here's what I've been doing, and it's definitely helping:
I've been practicing/training after my actual hunts by placing dead birds in brush (away from my dog), and then bringing the dog over to work the areas. I get him in the general vicinity (but at little distance) and say "Dead - hunt." The first couple of times, he just kind of jumped around and looked confused, but after discovering a duck or two and getting significant praise, he began to put it together.
He's still learning how to use his nose more efficiently (with the wind, etc.), but after just a few hunts, he's 200% better. Hope this helps.
Here's what I've been doing, and it's definitely helping:
I've been practicing/training after my actual hunts by placing dead birds in brush (away from my dog), and then bringing the dog over to work the areas. I get him in the general vicinity (but at little distance) and say "Dead - hunt." The first couple of times, he just kind of jumped around and looked confused, but after discovering a duck or two and getting significant praise, he began to put it together.
He's still learning how to use his nose more efficiently (with the wind, etc.), but after just a few hunts, he's 200% better. Hope this helps.
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I use the command find it. You can do what Selous said or what we do with puppies is hide their food somewhere in the yard and then walk them out on lead. When they start to get a snout full of the smell we drop the lead and give the command you want them to associate with using their nose. Fun game that gets them using their nose quick.
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i've been throwing bumpers into thick cover since we started training and I think that helps teach them to hunt for birds. It almost forces them too in order to retrieve the bird/bumper.
Also a couple upland flushes will encourage more nose hunting. after my dog put up a few pheasants and figured out what we were doing, he hunted much better with his nose down.
Also a couple upland flushes will encourage more nose hunting. after my dog put up a few pheasants and figured out what we were doing, he hunted much better with his nose down.
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you can teach the dog to trail by dragging a dead duck and then dropping some feathers at the start of the drag and telling the dog to find it. initially you might have to walk a short distance on the trail until the dog gets the idea but they soon enough learn to use their noses and they think it is really fun. keep drag short at first, maybe 40 yards, with one gradual corner.
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Keep a bunch of duck feathers from ducks you kill along with some tennis balls in a large ziplock type bag. Let them sit together fr a while so the tennis balls retain the duck feather smell. Then start throwing those balls (marks) into thick cover. He should naturally know what to do then.
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Got my vote.
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Thanks for the tips the upland idea is good but not real possible in southeast MO. Have ducks in freezer and will start using some in thick cover to see if that helps. Keep the ideas coming. This is his first season and WE are having a blast but would be nice to get him to hunt up some of the cripples!
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This worked wonders for me. I'd start dragging it around the house and just let him out to pick up on it on his own.
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I'll just expand a little on what chesaka and PB said.
First off it isn't a given that every retriever has a good nose; some are distinctly better than others, and of course it varies from breed to breed. So you need to acknowledge that you've got what you've got, and the job now is to maximise on it.
The dog needs to have a cue for a trailing hunt so you need to work out a verbal command that he'll cotton on to even when no shot has been fired or bird has been seen to drop. I use "Seek on" just because it sounds a lot different from the others. It's also handy to have your dog nice and sharp on his turn whistle; that way when you are working a bit of cover out, you can put him into the likely places.
When you start the trailing exercise, make sure that the wind is in his favour, right up his snitch, and he's following a genuine game scent not your own foot scent that you laid when planting the bird. I use a dead bird on a length of twine round a tree so I can be well to one side of the drag. I'm sure you can work out something similar to suit your own circumstances. Cuing with feathers as suggested is a great idea and replicates what he'll contend with on a hunt; a point where the bird hit the deck, lost a few feathers and legged it. This is called "the pitch" in Britspeak.
Another useful drill is to use a hand launcher to fire the scented tennis balls into undergrowth. This has the advantage of putting a powder smoke smell on them, again replicating real life. Advancing from there and laying much a longer trail, use the launcher to fire one of the round semi hard PVC dummies along the ground. With a good blank you can punch one of these seventy or eighty yards through light brash; this is SOP with Springers. Pic as below.
![Image]()
Eug
First off it isn't a given that every retriever has a good nose; some are distinctly better than others, and of course it varies from breed to breed. So you need to acknowledge that you've got what you've got, and the job now is to maximise on it.
The dog needs to have a cue for a trailing hunt so you need to work out a verbal command that he'll cotton on to even when no shot has been fired or bird has been seen to drop. I use "Seek on" just because it sounds a lot different from the others. It's also handy to have your dog nice and sharp on his turn whistle; that way when you are working a bit of cover out, you can put him into the likely places.
When you start the trailing exercise, make sure that the wind is in his favour, right up his snitch, and he's following a genuine game scent not your own foot scent that you laid when planting the bird. I use a dead bird on a length of twine round a tree so I can be well to one side of the drag. I'm sure you can work out something similar to suit your own circumstances. Cuing with feathers as suggested is a great idea and replicates what he'll contend with on a hunt; a point where the bird hit the deck, lost a few feathers and legged it. This is called "the pitch" in Britspeak.
Another useful drill is to use a hand launcher to fire the scented tennis balls into undergrowth. This has the advantage of putting a powder smoke smell on them, again replicating real life. Advancing from there and laying much a longer trail, use the launcher to fire one of the round semi hard PVC dummies along the ground. With a good blank you can punch one of these seventy or eighty yards through light brash; this is SOP with Springers. Pic as below.
Eug
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you can scent your bumpers this way but I cringe every time I see somebody tossing tennis balls for retrievers.
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How's it not possible?
Fork up a few bucks and get the dog on live healthy Chukar or preferably Pheasant, and let the dog work birds for the purpose of learning to work birds. If motivated and proficient (successful) with working to pick-up/flush/find/get run-around-by healthy birds - crips will come much easier.
Enable the dog for God's sake.
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Why is that Ken? We use tennis balls extensively in our training, especially for hunting, as they are much harder to find than a large dummy, so encourage a good thorough hunt. Are you worried the dog might choke on them or something?
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Not to long ago I had to have one cutt open to remove a blockage from peaces of tennis ball removed. He only had the ball for about 2 minutes
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OP, you might want to go over to Versatiledogs.com Lots more on tracking, trailing, blood work over there. We start pups very young on track work. I mean like 6 weeks young. Waking up that nose.
I trained my current lab on Lardy's Total Retriever and when I went to switch over to more a v-dog, more nose oriented, concept it was a battle. Now she is using her nose much better but then I refuse to handle her except to remind her to "Hunt um up" . She does use her nose but it's not her "default". She has good nose. Any good dog with desire and a nose is very capable of doing all nose work. Just we loose sight of training that direction enough.
The DD's are nose oriented by training and breeding. They never default to asking me for direction. I do train and send on a line. They will take a cast but I rarely go there. They manage the wind and cover. I have learned to let them go and to trust them.
I spend way more time on blinds and search, track and blood than I ever do on marks. It's easy for a dog to find a duck in open water at 35 yards when the duck is on it's back kicking.
What you get is a dog who almost never looses a bird. I think we only lost one Pheasant this season and I have no idea why or where that bird went. That one should have came to bag. We did have numerous birds that made it a 1/4 to over 1/2 a mile but came back. Don
I trained my current lab on Lardy's Total Retriever and when I went to switch over to more a v-dog, more nose oriented, concept it was a battle. Now she is using her nose much better but then I refuse to handle her except to remind her to "Hunt um up" . She does use her nose but it's not her "default". She has good nose. Any good dog with desire and a nose is very capable of doing all nose work. Just we loose sight of training that direction enough.
The DD's are nose oriented by training and breeding. They never default to asking me for direction. I do train and send on a line. They will take a cast but I rarely go there. They manage the wind and cover. I have learned to let them go and to trust them.
I spend way more time on blinds and search, track and blood than I ever do on marks. It's easy for a dog to find a duck in open water at 35 yards when the duck is on it's back kicking.
What you get is a dog who almost never looses a bird. I think we only lost one Pheasant this season and I have no idea why or where that bird went. That one should have came to bag. We did have numerous birds that made it a 1/4 to over 1/2 a mile but came back. Don
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I guess that could go for anything chewable that a dog is left alone with for a few minutes?
I don't leave the dog with the ball, or any retrieve item for that matter. Just do the hunt with it then delivered to hand..... A useful training tool. But you could use a flat canvas training disc instead , if concerned.
Really sorry to hear about your dog, Brad. Hope he made a good recovery.
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I'm not being smart ..just Logical.
It's not about getting the dummy/bumper or game ..It's how you get the game with retrievers.
I use the wind to help teach the dog to ''trust it's nose'' !
When it understands that ..I send /cast the dog with a tail wind and watch the brakes come on without a whistle.
It's not about getting the dummy/bumper or game ..It's how you get the game with retrievers.
I use the wind to help teach the dog to ''trust it's nose'' !
When it understands that ..I send /cast the dog with a tail wind and watch the brakes come on without a whistle.
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Get a book on tracking and then transition to birds. The problem may not be a lack of nose or lack of experience using it but rather one of overall drive to get in the cover and find the bird. Drive may be there in a marking situation because he knows something is there. Not knowing there is a reward to be had may have him confused when you tell him to go hunt. Entering tough cover is a taught skill with alot of dogs. Natural instinct would tell them not to burn that energy looking for a meal but rather to stalk the edges.
Tracking teaches them to search for things. It does also teach them to put their nose on the ground, which we don't always want (except with a running bird or running cripple), but I think the dog will learn quickly to air scent if he's in "tracking mode" and picks up a big wiff of something.
A nice warm bird on a cold day puts of a PANT LOAD of odor relative to what a detection or tracking dog works off of.
You could also start with some basic nosework exercises to get him searching with his nose as opposed to his eyes.
Tracking teaches them to search for things. It does also teach them to put their nose on the ground, which we don't always want (except with a running bird or running cripple), but I think the dog will learn quickly to air scent if he's in "tracking mode" and picks up a big wiff of something.
A nice warm bird on a cold day puts of a PANT LOAD of odor relative to what a detection or tracking dog works off of.
You could also start with some basic nosework exercises to get him searching with his nose as opposed to his eyes.
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I have used pheasant wings that I taped to bumpers for scent drags for awhile. They work really good. The more you use them, you will notice your dog really getting his nose down and using it more. I sometimes put them upwind so he has to use the trail, I sometimes put them downwind so he can scent the decoy itself. Start small even 15-20 feet at first, but build up to hundreds of feet zig zagging the whole way. When I start my drag I swirl the decoy in one spot for about 30 sec to a minute to create a scent pool. I sometimes pull the drag attached to the stick so I know that he is following the bird scent and not my scent. Don't worry about that at the start though.
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