Question for Retriever Field Trial

Erik Nilsson · Dec 11, 2013

I have a question regarding field trials for retrievers. I have a P.A.L. registration for my dog because he was a rescue. I am looking at going to the 2014 Golden Retriever National and I would like to run the Field Trial event however I noticed that on the AKC site that the following information was listed

Retriever Field Trials

Eligible Breeds

All dogs six months of age or older from the following breeds are eligible to participate in Retriever Field Trials:

AKC Recognized Breeds
•Chesapeake Retrievers
•Curly-Coated Retrievers
•Flat-Coated Retrievers
•Golden Retrievers
•Labrador Retrievers
•Irish Water Spaniels
•Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers
•Dogs of these breeds recorded with the Purebred Alternative Listing Program/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP) are not eligible to participate.
•Dogs of these breeds with Conditional registration are not eligible to participate.
•Spayed and neutered dogs are eligible to participate.
•Bitches in season are not eligible to participate.
•Dogs with Limited Registration are eligible to participate.

Why is that? Im assuming the GRCA follows the AKC rules

Please no FT BASHING I have a lot of respect for the game and the people I know and have met along the way.

Sabireley · Dec 11, 2013

PAL is a listing for dogs presumed to be pure bred but not eligible for registration for various reasons. Field Trials are the premier performance event for purebred dogs and the AKC has chosen to limit participation to those dogs who are registered. There are many events PALs registered dogs can run in, just not Field Trials. They are eligible for hunt tests. Maybe there is also a hunt test at the specialty you can run.

Steve

Becky Mills · Dec 11, 2013

Erik, good for you for rescuing a dog and training him/her. I feel your pain. My first dog wasn't a rescue but was out of a backyard breeding and he had no papers. At the time NAHRA was very active in the SE and I was allowed to run, and receive a ribbon when we passed but he wasn't eligible for a title. Not long after he completed the requirements for his NAHRA Master Hunter Retriever title they changed the ruling and he finally officially got his title. That piece of paper meant the world to me.
I realize that doesn't answer your question or solve your problem but maybe you can run test dog at the specialty. Or as Steve suggested you can run the hunt test. I just hope you'll keep going. I hate to think of all the joy and friends I would have missed if we hadn't been allowed to run at all.
Best of luck.
Take Care,
Becky

dr_dog_guy · Dec 11, 2013

Becky is right. My second Golden was formally named Chama, Belle of the Pound by virtue of her ILP listing. We had a great time in hunt tests, and got applause and laughs when her name was read at the ribbon ceremonies.

GRCA has no choice but to follow AKC rules at the FT if they want the Championship points to count, and they do want them to count. But try hunt tests, they are a ton of fun, and a good way to work into FT.

DoubleHaul · Dec 11, 2013

You could also run in the WC/WCX. It generally follows FT rules but does allow ILP number dogs.

RookieTrainer · Dec 11, 2013

I have a PAL dog too. I don't understand why you BOTH have to spay/neuter such a dog to get the PAL AND you can't run FTs. I can see not allowing intact dogs to run FTs IF your aim is to avoid breeding of possibly not-so-purebred dogs, which would happen if one of them started winning/placing consistently. I don't understand what the problem is once they are spayed/neutered, because at that point you have removed that threat from the equation.

It looks to me like there is at least some concern that a couple of these types of dogs might actually be competitive, which might upset a few apple carts, but I am sure there is more to it than that.

FYI: I have been told by someone I trust that my dog would probably be a pretty decent Q level dog if he stayed on a pro truck most of the time (translation: he is a Q dog but you are not a Q handler). I don't know what we would do if we were eligible to compete (probably get our rear ends handed to us, and that's after I go back and teach him that "sit means sit"), but it would be nice to be able to at least scratch that itch. Oh well, I will learn from this one and cross that bridge somewhere down the road.

DoubleHaul · Dec 11, 2013

RookieTrainer said:
It looks to me like there is at least some concern that a couple of these types of dogs might actually be competitive, which might upset a few apple carts, but I am sure there is more to it than that.

Do there have to be more than that? IMO that might be the precise reason. FTs are supposed to find the best of the retriever breed. Suppose they allowed PALs dogs in? Could someone take a nice lab, breed in a little sight hound for those long marks or some such, get a PALs number and start taking home all the blues? Seems to me that the threat of a designer FT dog might be more than enough reason.

MikeBoley · Dec 11, 2013

I don't know for sure but the fact that FTs award Championships (the letters in front of the name) is the driving force behind requiring pure bred registered breeds only to be allowed to complete. Just as you can't get a bench title with a PAL dog.

John Robinson · Dec 11, 2013

DoubleHaul said:
Do there have to be more than that? IMO that might be the precise reason. FTs are supposed to find the best of the retriever breed. Suppose they allowed PALs dogs in? Could someone take a nice lab, breed in a little sight hound for those long marks or some such, get a PALs number and start taking home all the blues? Seems to me that the threat of a designer FT dog might be more than enough reason.

This is why I wish we used blue font or something to show dim-wits like me when you are being sarcastic. This is a joke, right?

Happy Gilmore · Dec 11, 2013

How in the heck fire would someone with an eligible dog feel losing points to a dog who can't even get the title? Rediculous speculations here. They may as well just give everybody a ribbon for showing up when the trial is over too.

Erik Nilsson · Dec 11, 2013

Thanks for the insights and we appreciate the kind comments. It is what it is, wasn't looking to campaign the dog by all means just run a FT. Its fun training anyways. We do run the HT venues and he has a nice track record going including his WCX so with good fortune we will continue to work that direction and hopefully achieve his MH this year.

So is it possible for PAL dog with the 6 MH passes in the qualifying time period be eligible for the MN?

Hunt'EmUp · Dec 12, 2013

I believe if it's not a competitive event, which the MNH is not your good to go. I know many spayed females that run it year after year, they let you run the hunt test I don't see why they wouldn't take you $$$$ for the master nationals

.

Erik Nilsson · Dec 12, 2013

Well we'll have to get through master. OBTW I have been meaning to say for awhile how much I like the dog in your avatar. Good looking!

Question for Retriever Field Trial

Erik Nilsson

Sabireley

Becky Mills

dr_dog_guy

DoubleHaul

RookieTrainer

DoubleHaul

MikeBoley

John Robinson

Happy Gilmore

Erik Nilsson

Hunt'EmUp

Erik Nilsson

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