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What a crazy weekend *AKC JR TEST VENT*

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#21 ·
A couple of different thoughts:

First, those people who continue on in the retriever games and derive satisfaction from their participation are those who are able to focus on their dog's work, and hopefully, improvement. The people who focus on the external trappings of the games - ribbons, titles, accolades - tend to be unhappy and bitter. It sounds like the OP learned some things and has some things to work on to improve his dog's future performance. In this sport, there is always something that needs work.

Second, I think that as a judge, it works better if you establish a rule for no-birds - as Paul does. I don't think it is a good idea to let contestants decide.
 
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#22 ·
paul young said:
If I am judging, there is no "option". You will be instructed to leash your dog and tell the Marshal to move you back 3 dogs. If there are not 3 dogs left to run, You will be instructed to come back in 15 minutes. Over the years I have been involved, I have seen many dogs implode when the handler is in a hurry to run. I believe that a short wait is the fairest thing to do.-Paul
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As a marshal, this is what I have been asked to suggest to handlers, regardless of dead vs live flyer. I've personally had several no birds over the years w/ JH dogs, and it is the best choice.
 
#23 · (Edited)
KevinsKennels said:
Let me just say...I am upset at what happened...I am disappointed in my self (not the dog/judges)....and i am just venting....now that this is done and over i can move on :)
like i said, i am here to learn, and that's whats being done with everybody's comments, so i do thank you for that! I am just over anxious to get my hunting buddy to earn that title :-D
I am in no way shying away from this game, just going to learn from our mistakes and move on!
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Many of us have walked in your shoes. I remember my first Junior Hunt Test in the early 1980's in Texas, I forgot my whistle and had to borrow the judges... plus I learned the hard way as a newbie to always wait 3 dogs after a "no bird". I even owned a Master-level dog in Kansas that freaked out because they hid the gunners in the ditch. She came over the hill to pickup the bird, and had never seen people in a ditch. I guess she thought they were aliens or zombies rising from the grave. :) She came back without the bird, and I thought she had been bitten by a snake. She refused to go back out there. I politely thanked the judges for their time, and made the long puzzling drive home. After that we trained with gunners hidden in ditches for sure with her.
 
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#25 ·
paul young said:
If I am judging, there is no "option". You will be instructed to leash your dog and tell the Marshal to move you back 3 dogs. If there are not 3 dogs left to run, You will be instructed to come back in 15 minutes. Over the years I have been involved, I have seen many dogs implode when the handler is in a hurry to run. I believe that a short wait is the fairest thing to do.-Paul
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Agreed. Best to take it off the handlers' shoulders. I also like the 15 minute piece. It seems when I am rushing over from working one stake to run another is when I am going to get a no bird. You are anxious to keep things moving as well as possible so it is always appreciated when a judge 'forces' you to take a few minutes before coming back

I also think it is a good idea to say Dog x is the last dog to run today instead of asking the handler what they would prefer.
 
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#26 ·
paul young said:
If I am judging, there is no "option". You will be instructed to leash your dog and tell the Marshal to move you back 3 dogs. If there are not 3 dogs left to run, You will be instructed to come back in 15 minutes. Over the years I have been involved, I have seen many dogs implode when the handler is in a hurry to run. I believe that a short wait is the fairest thing to do.-Paul
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Another great piece of wisdom Paul :)
 
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Discussion starter · #27 ·
This is why i love this sport! All of you great people out there are giving me AWESOME advice and i do truly appreciate it as a "newbie" to this game! I now know to wait the 3 dogs after a "no bird" for the dogs sake and not my own. Also, as of this morning, i ordered 2 holding blinds, one winger, and a starter pistol! If i want my dog to succeed, i need to train for success! i just took for granted he was a great duck dog, and IMO almost set him up for failure, which is purely my fault. I have always been a VERY competitive person (14 years of wrestling, 9 years of baseball, and 9 years of football) will do that to a guy ;) so this is just another competition that me and my dog and do together!
 
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#28 ·
KevinsKennels said:
This is why i love this sport! All of you great people out there are giving me AWESOME advice and i do truly appreciate it as a "newbie" to this game! I now know to wait the 3 dogs after a "no bird" for the dogs sake and not my own. Also, as of this morning, i ordered 2 holding blinds, one winger, and a starter pistol! If i want my dog to succeed, i need to train for success! i just took for granted he was a great duck dog, and IMO almost set him up for failure, which is purely my fault. I have always been a VERY competitive person (14 years of wrestling, 9 years of baseball, and 9 years of football) will do that to a guy ;) so this is just another competition that me and my dog and do together!
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In line with the experience shared with you here, there ain't much that can happen that hasn't already happened.
On the no bird rerun..........been there, done that, learned the hard way!:oops:
 
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#30 ·
Good Dogs said:
It is indeed possible to bring all the birds back in a hunt test and not pass. It's HOW that work was done that matters.
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Yep.[/QUOTE]

My first hunting dog was an awesome HT dog for me, he had just the right amount of horsepower for a newbie handler, was a decent marker and was a very compliant handling dog. We breezed through JH, SH NAHRA Started and Intermediate, then I tried the Master level. I had run under the late-great Ron Craven a few times and was once again in this Master. It was a land triple with invitation to the land blind. Kimo had two ugly hunts but we got all the birds. As he was returning with the last bird of the triple Ron says, "I don't think we are going to see Kimo run the blind today", me being clueless said, "oh no, Kimo can do this blind easy". That's when Ron had to be more blunt in telling me we had failed.:rolleyes: I was devastated, I couldn't believe we had actually failed a hunt test, never had before, but it was pretty obvious to my wife that we were months away from doing Master test. It's all about the journey.

John
 
#31 ·
I know it seems like a big deal to you now, but trust me. If you stay in this crazy game long enough, you'll get screwed a few times and be given gifts a few times. Junior is just the tip of the iceberg.

You just have to smile and thank the judges and other workers for their time and look forward to your next opportunity. At the end of the day, it's just a $2.50 ribbon. What really matters is how the dog that goes home with you feels about you as his best buddy at the end of the weekend and how you feel about him. Enjoy the ride man.
 
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#32 ·
Dan Wegner said:
I know it seems like a big deal to you now, but trust me. If you stay in this crazy game long enough, you'll get screwed a few times and be given gifts a few times. Junior is just the tip of the iceberg.

You just have to smile and thank the judges and other workers for their time and look forward to your next opportunity. At the end of the day, it's just a $2.50 ribbon. What really matters is how the dog that goes home with you feels about you as his best buddy at the end of the weekend and how you feel about him. Enjoy the ride man.
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Perfect perspective!
 
#33 ·
not going to read all the posts - but here is my 2 cents ...missed flyers put the test on hold until bird is recovered, or be prepared for just your situation .Judges were right in calling you back under the this circumstance , and it is allowed per the rules .As far as the water mark ,you didn't say if the dog established a hunt in the AOF prior to going to the bird boy .If a hunt was in progress beginning with the AOF, and expanded into the blind , and it is a JH test , pup may have earned a score enough to qualify .If pup ran to the blind and snatched a bird , not so much . Glad you both had a measure of success ,and wish you continued good luck :)
 
#35 ·
I wld be happy that he remembered the first flyer mark that is impressive, he wld make a great hunter, I feel if the dogs bring the birds back they shld pass but there is as lot more to it read up on how tests are scored it will give you a better understanding of why you didnt pass, I failed a Sr test for haveing a controled break and a handle on a mark, when the rule book states your aloud one of each, the judges decison is final, its all good have fun and get better for the next one !
 
#36 · (Edited)
KevinsKennels said:
Allrighty folks...i have had by far the weirdest weekend running hunt tests. Let me start off by saying on Saturday my dog and i passed our second JR test which was amazing! But Sunday was just plain nerve racking. So first live flyer on land series, the bird was thrown hit the wind and turned into the woods, Judges called "no bird", i decided to run right away again since he was already amped up and ready to run, so we came back to the line and second bird was thrown and shot and landed about 70 yards out in some decoys, judges called my number and i sent my dog and on his way out to the second bird (the only shot bird) he all of a sudden took a hard right and be lined into the woods...i thought "oh crap...now what"...after about 15 seconds or so he come busting out with the ORIGINAL LIVE FLYER!! so the judges said that was the strangest thing but let it fly. So we lined up for the second bird and BAM perfect mark, no hunting needed, and delivered to hand. So we got called back for the second series (the water work) and got the first bird after a little bit of hunting (bad mark on our part), and got set up for the second bird and sent him out and he decided to go visit the bird boy in the blind (dangit) and the bird boy had accidentally left a bird on the ground so the dog grabbed it and brought it back and delivered to hand! Judges discussed this and did NOT let me re-run or say anything really about it. At the end of the day at the passing out of ribbons, my number was not called :-( and i asked the judges why, and they said his marking on the two birds was scored ZERO's so it dropped my average down (or so im told) but he had perfect line manners, brought me back 4 birds, delivered to hand, and never cheated the lines....needless to say i am upset with my self, the dog, and the judges for not (in my opinion) giving me re-runs for unforeseen circumstances.....I am new to this game and have been trying to learn all the rules and everything so i am not sure weather i am in the right or wrong for feeling like i kind of got screwed.


On a side note...i did not pass, but a PRO trainer who brought 4 dogs to line on slip leads and 1 on a choke chain (which i thought was 100% against the rules) was able to earn his ribbons????


Thats enough of a rant for now...just bummed now, but defiantly driven to train even harder!!!
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I did not read all of the replies, just some from the first page, so this may be redundant, but here is my take (I am not a judge and I've never been to the judges/handlers seminars):

1) The judges gave you a huge break when your dog brought back the old flyer. I'm not sure they should have done that. I think they should have tried to recover that bird before throwing another flyer. This is probably why they let you slide on that one - they realized too late that they should have eliminated that possibility but the fact remains that your dog brought back a bird that was nowhere near the area of the fall on the rerun. The rerun was the test you were running.

2) The bird boy should have had his ducks in the bucket to avoid a junior dog learning bad behavior, but not necessarily to keep the dog from failing the test. If the dog was over with the bird boys something was already wrong.

3) I don't think that you and your dog got screwed by the judges but you did get screwed by the circumstances in general (no bird, judges not securing the no bird before running, bird boys not keeping ducks in bucket) and your young dog could not or did not handle those circumstances well enough. This happens all the time, no birds, bad throws that are NOT called no-birds, a flock of honking geese flies over right when you need your dog to be focused on the marks being thrown, the sun is right in the eyes of dogs running at a certain point in the running order, marks are in the shade and hard to see for part of the running order, but in bright light for other dogs, etc. The list is endless. As hard as everyone may (or may not) try, all dogs don't get the same test. They just don't. In the future when you get a no-bird you should consider dropping back 3 dogs in the running order, particularly if your dog SAW the no-bird and if the no-bird was not in the intended area of the fall for that mark (meaning if your dog remembers it and tries to get it he will not be going to the area of the fall).

Good luck in the future.
 
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