Lyme Vaccination Effectiveness & Side Affects

Mary Lynn Metras · Sep 1, 2014

Very presumptuous to be attacking people all the time Magnum. Can you not just respect another's comments and let it go! You are not always right!! IHMO

.44 magnum · Sep 1, 2014

Mary Lynn Metras said:
Very presumptuous to be attacking people all the time Magnum. Can you not just respect another's comments and let it go! You are not always right!! IHMO

Not really... because in the case of Lyme disease which this is about, Titer testing is extremely important.

MunsterBraccoLab · Sep 1, 2014

.44 magnum said:
Not really... because in the case of Lyme disease which this is about, Titer testing is extremely important.

This is completely false. Many, many, many dogs will Titer positive for Lyme year after year without ever having one symptom of Lyme or ever really having the infection. The high Titer alone only means that the dog was exposed and in the vast majority of exposures 95% or more will never have one clinical symptom of Lyme.

So be aware of the symptoms, but don't let it run your life.

swliszka · Sep 1, 2014

Well Magnum we went down this road before on other threads. You do not believe in Lyme vacinations. You claimed that Frontline Plus was ineffective. My multiple dogs have been in in the most invasive Lyme tick areas (Central Minnesota-Western WI- CT-MA) and so far have lived to be 14 , 13 and almost 12 w/no adverse effects. I currently have two younger ones 2008 and 2012 who are doing well.

Regional vets and the schools they graduate from often encourage/require different protocols. Pay your money and take your chance. Cornell was big on NOT vaccinating dogs for Lyme in 1993.
I interviewed 16 vets when I moved to the MA/CT area and found one w/a BS in EE and BS in biology from Northeastern. He went to Michigan State. He did not agree w/Cornell. He has been my vet these 20 years . I have three others in MN. They are all on the same page w/different educational/experienced backgrounds.

I do agree w/an aspect of your remarks in that , if I am correct , OVER vacinations can be hurtful. Many vets are now requiring only two or three year redos . However they also insist this for insurance reasons if your dog will be housed in their facility. (Auto-immune response).

Mary Lynn Metras · Sep 1, 2014

.44 magnum said:
Not really... because in the case of Lyme disease which this is about, Titer testing is extremely important.

Can't you get a false positive with titer testing?

suepuff · Sep 1, 2014

Sigh.....it's amazing how the internet makes everyone experts.

Dr Ed you can give me advice anytime. Seeing as how old you are I'm sure it will be good.

Sue Puff

MunsterBraccoLab · Sep 1, 2014

Mary Lynn Metras said:
Can't you get a false positive with titer testing?

Yes that is why it has little value, no value really. Keep in mind this discussion is for the dog population as a whole. There could be cases where preventive treatment and monitoring is of value, but these are very rare.

I see no value in vaccinating and going to extreme measure with chemicals given the low risk of serious illness from Lyme.

Buck Mann · Sep 1, 2014

.44 magnum said:
None... each Vet is different

So Magnum, we've been here before. I want to see your scientific background, especially as it relate to veterinary medicine. Since you are very free with your veterinary medical advice, what are your qualifications? Here is some of Ed's that I downloaded.

Dr. Aycock is a member of the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Texas Veterinary Medical Association, Past President of the American Canine Sports Medicine Association, and Past President of The National Retriever Club.

It's painful to watch you come on here and start giving free veterinary medical advice then argue with people more knowledgeable.

Buck

Becky Mills · Sep 1, 2014

suepuff said:
Sigh.....it's amazing how the internet makes everyone experts.

Dr Ed you can give me advice anytime. Seeing as how old you are I'm sure it will be good.

Sue Puff

Dr. Ed is not only old, but old school. That's even worse.

suepuff · Sep 1, 2014

Becky Mills said:
Dr. Ed is not only old, but old school. That's even worse.

Double negative Becky! Cancels each other out! So what DOES that make him?! An expert I think.

hotel4dogs · Sep 1, 2014

While Lyme is easy to diagnose and easy to treat, it also can cause Lyme Nephritis, which is generally fatal. Goldens and Labs are over represented in the breeds who are prone to Lyme nephritis.
Lyme really isn't something to mess with.

pheona · Sep 2, 2014

I recommended not having it. You give it to your dog then it will test positive. Plus i had a dog develop heart problem from it. I live in California where i do not have a big serious threat from it. it is treatable if your dog does get it.

Rainmaker · Sep 2, 2014

Magnum, first, I wish you’d change your avatar, because you truly are not deserving of hiding behind a photo of Tom Selleck.

Second, while you are free to spout your opinions (or rather, your cut and paste Google expertise) on a public forum, one thing that ain’t gonna fly is calling out Dr. Ed, especially as a veterinarian, and even more especially as a dog guy. He doesn’t need anyone defending him, he’s got more credibility than just about anyone on this forum. But make no mistake, you went too far with posting what you have on this thread. RTF isn’t what it used to be, and maybe it’s all warm and fuzzy now for the noobs, but wasn’t too long ago you’d have been taught some manners by a right proper RTF smackdown. RTF and the retriever community needs Dr. Ed far more than we need more of the likes of you.

Third, I'm no pet parent. I own my dogs and am responsible for their care and well-being, but, I am not their parent. Humanizing our companion animals is dangerously ridiculous, as well as insulting to the wonderful nature of what they really are.

hotel4dogs · Sep 2, 2014

Where's the "LIKE" button? Totally agree, and hate the expressions "pet parent" and "fur babies".

Rainmaker said:
Third, I'm no pet parent. I own my dogs and am responsible for their care and well-being, but, I am not their parent. Humanizing our companion animals is dangerously ridiculous, as well as insulting to the wonderful nature of what they really are.

Mary Lynn Metras · Sep 2, 2014

Rainmaker said:
Magnum, first, I wish you’d change your avatar, because you truly are not deserving of hiding behind a photo of Tom Selleck.

Second, while you are free to spout your opinions (or rather, your cut and paste Google expertise) on a public forum, one thing that ain’t gonna fly is calling out Dr. Ed, especially as a veterinarian, and even more especially as a dog guy. He doesn’t need anyone defending him, he’s got more credibility than just about anyone on this forum. But make no mistake, you went too far with posting what you have on this thread. RTF isn’t what it used to be, and maybe it’s all warm and fuzzy now for the noobs, but wasn’t too long ago you’d have been taught some manners by a right proper RTF smackdown. RTF and the retriever community needs Dr. Ed far more than we need more of the likes of you.

Third, I'm no pet parent. I own my dogs and am responsible for their care and well-being, but, I am not their parent. Humanizing our companion animals is dangerously ridiculous, as well as insulting to the wonderful nature of what they really are.

Well said!

luvmylabs23139 · Sep 2, 2014

.44 magnum said:
How many dog owners go into their Vets office and ask for Titers before giving any boosters? I've started doing this and avoided many boosters, along with knowing my dog has immunity.

It has always amazed me that humans for the most part my age were given vaccines in the 1950-s and sixties and my doctor has never said I need any boosters except for tetanus. Yet our dogs who live only to under 20 years old need all these boosters...

Many pet parents need to talk to their Vets about Titer testing VS any booster.

measles went crazy in maybe 75 or 76 in our small town. Upper middle class everyone had the kid shots. I was in eight grade and students were dropping like flies. It was so bad that if your parent signed a slip of paper you got a free booster in school. For the most part everyone got the free booster at school because unless you traveled out of town for a doctor you were going to pay the same doctor for the same shot. When I went back to college for my masters there was another measles outbreak and we had to prove we had so many boosters. I got out of one beck cause I had my ancient uk national health card record but they would not accept anything including that school, booster as a real record.
want one even more nuts I had to get a second smallpox vaccine as a not quite 4 year old to move to the US. This with a uk national health card. Now who cares according to 9bama and his crew. I have two scars from those shots.

Swack · Sep 2, 2014

Rainmaker said:
Third, I'm no pet parent. I own my dogs and am responsible for their care and well-being, but, I am not their parent. Humanizing our companion animals is dangerously ridiculous, as well as insulting to the wonderful nature of what they really are.

Thanks for this Kim. My hackles raise when I rear the term "Pet Parents". That's the first step which ends with the Dept. of Pet Welfare paying you a visit to "save your pet child" from living outdoors in a kennel and being made to swim in cold water to pick up the poor defenseless duck you murdered.

They're our dogs. We OWN them! We give them the best care we can and we know more about them than the bleeding hearts who've been guzzling the kool-aide. It may seem easier to put up with some of the PC nonsense rather than to condemn it, but we can't let them get a toehold. Thanks for taking the stand!

Swack

.44 magnum · Sep 2, 2014

Let's see.. pet parent... dog owner.... semantics...

While for many dogs are a business, a hobby, a tool... my companion animal is treated as well as any of my kids... go figure.

While many seem to think Lyme disease is easily cured it is not... the little buggers can hide out in the joints and come back active at times of stress or old age...

As far as using the vaccine you also have to know that a lot of dogs do not gain immunity from giving it... so it is best to keep ticks off your dog.

Get a Vet you trust and talk over your options.... whether your dog is just another tool in your shed, or your best friend, Lyme disease sucks.

jrrichar · Sep 2, 2014

To the OP: sorry that this thread went off the wall. If you have access to pubmed (www.pubmed.org -the national institute of health's academic journal database) your best bet is to simply search "lyme vaccine AND dog." There are recent publications on the effectiveness of a combo lyme vaccine 1 year later and a study completed in a population of beagles to determine the expression rate of various strains/markers of lyme and result of the development of symptoms.

Furthermore, if you search google a Zoonotic publication in 2003 for the AVMA gives a lot of good information for the pros, cons, and factors towards lyme vaccination, as well as, an informative look at the disease and the rate of presentation of symptoms (quite low as a fellow RTF member indicated). I think this could give you the most informative answer.

To magnum: it seems like every time there is a post about some sort of veterinary medical related issue you seem to be the in-house expert, albeit in a cowardly way (no name). More then likely, you were never good enough to actually attain a degree that confers any sort of expertise to the field. So you feel that your only validation comes from speaking on a public forum, with no identity, and spew your wisdom. While those that worked their butts off, still do, contribute and add to the field (that you google through and find your choice sentences taken out of context to support your insane claims) and given the terms "old school", "evil pharma," and wanting to "poison" all dogs as attacks to those individuals. Each one of my scientific publications took years, lots of money, and a whole lot of blood sweat and tears to make a few statements. You make paragraphs of statements in a manner of seconds.

You are given the right to freedom of speech. Use it the right way instead of giving false information to those that may not have the facts to judge it as such. At the very least, present both sides NOT just your agenda. You are the reason that many dog owners get their animals into serious trouble, lack or complete misinformation! You are the danger!

.44 magnum · Sep 2, 2014

jrrichar said:
To the OP: sorry that this thread went off the wall. If you have access to pubmed (www.pubmed.org -the national institute of health's academic journal database) your best bet is to simply search "lyme vaccine AND dog." There are recent publications on the effectiveness of a combo lyme vaccine 1 year later and a study completed in a population of beagles to determine the expression rate of various strains/markers of lyme and result of the development of symptoms.

Furthermore, if you search google a Zoonotic publication in 2003 for the AVMA gives a lot of good information for the pros, cons, and factors towards lyme vaccination, as well as, an informative look at the disease and the rate of presentation of symptoms (quite low as a fellow RTF member indicated). I think this could give you the most informative answer.

To magnum: it seems like every time there is a post about some sort of veterinary medical related issue you seem to be the in-house expert, albeit in a cowardly way (no name). More then likely, you were never good enough to actually attain a degree that confers any sort of expertise to the field. So you feel that your only validation comes from speaking on a public forum, with no identity, and spew your wisdom. While those that worked their butts off, still do, contribute and add to the field (that you google through and find your choice sentences taken out of context to support your insane claims) and given the terms "old school", "evil pharma," and wanting to "poison" all dogs as attacks to those individuals. Each one of my scientific publications took years, lots of money, and a whole lot of blood sweat and tears to make a few statements. You make paragraphs of statements in a manner of seconds.

You are given the right to freedom of speech. Use it the right way instead of giving false information to those that may not have the facts to judge it as such. At the very least, present both sides NOT just your agenda. You are the reason that many dog owners get their animals into serious trouble, lack or complete misinformation! You are the danger!

Really .... False info? Good luck to anyone thinking Lyme disease just a picnic... and you are right.... it is never wise to even comment in these threads because if you are just a dog owner you are stupid as dirt.

Lyme Vaccination Effectiveness & Side Affects

Mary Lynn Metras

.44 magnum

MunsterBraccoLab

swliszka

Mary Lynn Metras

suepuff

MunsterBraccoLab

Buck Mann

Becky Mills

suepuff

hotel4dogs

pheona

Rainmaker

hotel4dogs

Mary Lynn Metras

luvmylabs23139

Swack

.44 magnum

jrrichar

.44 magnum

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