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Opinions on Richard Wolters

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farmbabe

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Having trained only two dogs to be hunter/retrievers my first book I read was Water Dog as it was recommended to me by others who have successfully trained their dogs. I don't do trials just wanted a dog i could go goose and pheasant hunting with. I also train horses so the conditioned response method was familiar to me.

I know the books were written a long time ago and perhaps some ideas have changed and so has available equipment but over time I have noticed in these type of forums a hostility towards Wolters training books and methods. So my question is Why?

With the advent of DVD's and the need to sell a new product or service it seems to me most of the unpleasantness comes from others wanting to sell stuff to the masses or perhaps its just a lack of appreciation for the work of another. I don't know but maybe someone here can shed some light on this.
 
#2 ·
As someone that used Wolter's book to train a retriever decades ago, I can attest how much retriever training techniques have advanced in forty years. Modern methods produce a much a better trained retriever with the same amount of effort.
 
#3 ·
Was my first retriever training book over thirty years ago. Like Russ said it is outdated, kind of like using a manual for a 1942 Ford to fix a modern engine. Sure they are still internal combustion, but things have changed. His early age stuff (7 weeks) is still pretty accurate as dogs haven't changed, but training methods have,
That said it is still a big seller among those who don't really know about training. I hear non-retriever (HT/FT) folks mention it all the time. Usually when someone who knows little about training a retriever sees one of my dogs or finds out I train they tell me how they have Water Dog,
 
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#4 ·
This was also my first book on dog training that I read back in 1997. I knew when I read it that it was outdated, but it is a good way to get started in understanding the concepts related to training a dog to hunt. I also fount the book entertaining....like many of the trainers I have met today....they are a group of folks that can be very entertaining, especially when a group of them are together following a dog field event...
 
#5 ·
I have the book mentioned and even used it to start my first dog. As mentioned in the above posts, outdated material, I find the "puppy" portion of the material still relevant but the transition portion if you want to call it that can be do more harm than good.

There's better material, resources and programs available today for the individual that wants to train their own dog, particularly a hunting dog.

Train your pup and have fun.
 
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#6 ·
Weird that this thread showed up. I found my old Water Dog book the other day (corner of the book is chewed off from my last crazy pup) and read it just for the heck of it. It is entertaining to read but crazy how training methods have advanced.
 
#9 ·
Met him once. He was one of the early anti-field trial folks. So much ground in dog training, quality breedings, DVD training, books, quality Pros, money , less amateurs training all or a portion of the training, it really isn't worth reading except for entertainment. Like the "retriever bible" of James Lamb free, entertaining, but, not much of a training aid. Most of the "basic" contemporary training of the various Carr based programs, folks training just " hunting dogs" , would be better served going in those directions, in my opinion, if nothing more then speaking the same language about retriever training. Old early conventional, for young dogs, just don't get it anymore in this high tech world. A very old phrase of there are two ways to training a field retriever, the easy way and the other way, might apply here.
 
#11 ·
Criquetpas said:
Met him once. He was one of the early anti-field trial folks. So much ground in dog training, quality breedings, DVD training, books, quality Pros, money , less amateurs training all or a portion of the training, it really isn't worth reading except for entertainment. Like the "retriever bible" of James Lamb free, entertaining, but, not much of a training aid. Most of the "basic" contemporary training of the various Carr based programs, folks training just " hunting dogs" , would be better served going in those directions, in my opinion, if nothing more then speaking the same language about retriever training. Old early conventional, for young dogs, just don't get it anymore in this high tech world. A very old phrase of there are two ways to training a field retriever, the easy way and the other way, might apply here.
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As did I - he showed at the MT State trial in 1965 - very anti FT's - had 2 very nice dogs, one of which ran
test dog for the Derby as it was overage - also had a Ford PU with a really big camper & huge tire to support
the load - so other things have changed besides dog training - when he wrote WD it was the most advanced
basic retriever training available, & remained that way for several years - in those days there was James Lamb
Free's book, then Water Dog & Blanche Saunders for OB training - & Pfaffenberger for canine behavior plus
if you were lucky you hooked up with a good group of trainers :) -

NFC Baird Centerville Sam was trained by Water Dog & a 1st dog trainer in Walt Baird - after he was sold to
the Wallace's Tommy Sorenson spent over a year retraining Sam - apparently with great success -

Didn't he also have something to do with one of the HT venues?

As stated here - lots has changed - there is a lot of info out there - but it still helps to have a good dog to start
with ;-) -
 
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#13 ·
Yes Marvin that big truck made the rounds and he would do just as you describe to try to discredit field trials. I lost track of him, but, think your correct about the hunt test venues. My early ancestors said it was not polite to talk about the deceased and as a elder will probably leave it alone LOL. Everyone should probably read everything there is about the retriever training venues. The more we learn from the past might prevent the same thing from happening in the future. Many of the younger folks perhaps don't realize some of this "stuff", like James Lamb Free first edition was about 1948, with revisions. He got his start on the South end of my County in Illinois, as did many of the older field trial clubs. I shoveled ( dog crap) on the weekend as a 19 or 20 year old for a guy named Cliff Wallace (Shed of Arden fame) and he in turn helped me train my young Golden I had at the time. I am 71 years young, so one can do the math on some of these older training methods. So an old guy like me who trains with the Lardy Method and has attended a couple of Lardy seminars, one in the last three years, can learn the easy way, just saying.
 
#15 ·
I would gather that many whom are competent trainers today and have been involved with retrievers for 30 years or more, likely got started or interested by reading Wolters WATER DOG. Like most technical fields, there has been much evolution in the methodology of training retrievers since Wolters wrote that book. I recently read the book again and found it quite amusing to compare what was to what is. Those new to the training of retrievers and the world of HT's and FT's are very fortunate to have access to so many great sources of retriever training related materials, DVD's, BOOKS, CLUBS, CLINICS, MAGAZINES, and INTERNET sites such as RTF put much valued knowledge at one's fingertips.

I did not know Richard Wolters personally, but like many, he sparked my interest in the training of retrievers and I am grateful to him for that, something that many can relate to. I have learned much from others that have continued as leaders in the development of state of the art training techniques, those being beyond what Wolters may have ever imagined, but like many of them as well, I am fortunate to have had access to Wolters work to pull me into the world of retrievers and working with them.

IRISHWHISTLER
 
#17 ·
He was an iconoclast for sure, very flamboyant and loved the limelight, but Water Dog was the book that got me going in the sport back in 79. I was living in tiny Lanai City on the Pineapple Isle when my girlfriend gave me a little Golden pup for Christmas. I went down to the Lanai City library and found an old copy of Water Dog. That book was all I had, and I followed it religiously. Looking back I also realize I had the perfect dog for a newbie, she was very birdy, loved to retrieve, loved water, smart, sensitive and anxious to please.

With that dog, that book worked perfect, she advanced step by step, day by day just as described by Wolters. 12 years later I got my second dog, a heady willful Golden male who frustrated the heck out of me. I used Wolters Game Dog with him, and between me, dog and book, it was a disaster. I actually called Richard Wolters at his home in New York to seek advise. He was very nice, though a little exasperated. He told me I was taking his book way too literally, and my best course of action was to seek out a good amateur who could take me under his wing. I did that and the rest is history, that dog and I learned together, working our way through, Jh, SH, MH and countless great hunts before I moved into field trials with better bred dogs and modern training.
 
#19 ·
BJGatley said:
I agree. :)

Edit to post: Another favorite read of mine is Charles Morgan "On Retrievers" :)
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Now that is a classic and he was a man ahead of his time..D.L. got him to sit for recordings. I was at Eagle Wisconsin running a sanction field trial when he died of a heart attack..It is forever known as Morgan Hill was there last Sunday...reminiscing after I came back training.
 
#20 ·
We met him at a NAHRA test and diner 25?years ago. Even got his autograph on one of his books. I think we have 3 or 4 of his books.
 
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Chris Atkinson
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