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Line breed or outcross?

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mike olson

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I just got my ofa results back on my 2.5year old blf and the hips are good and elbows are normal. Iam aways from wanting to breed her but I am starting to look for possible studs. She won 2 derbies and got a 4th in another to make the list. Some of her traits that I really like is her consistant attitude in training and on trial day. She is very quiet but very intense. Some of the comments I have been told are She gets in a bad spot and makes a great decision and she just knows were to go. Some of the things I am not a huge fan of is she really dosent care for other other dogs and not really the best looking dog I have ever seen. The size of the stud will be important because she only weighs #40. I dont want to go to small or to big. Check out her ped and let me know what would be be a good stud to magnify the level headed intensity she has. Her name is Olsons High Voltage "Zap" in case the link I put in doesn't work.

http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=80926

Thanks Mike
 
#3 ·
I'd consider

FC AFC GUNSTOCK'S TOPSHELF SNAP DECISION

FC AFC LANES LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE

FC AFC WINDY CITY'S MIGHTY MOUSE

Btw, I co-owned Cali until she was about 3. Sweet dog with a ton of desire and talent. I think she was held back by my training.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I'm very happy with my Mickey pups Charles, one of them in the avatar, 13 months , thinking Code Blue and Carbon in there would work well. Lots of ways to go mike with a stud, studied your pedigree I definitely like Ford in there. Your girl seems to be on her way, still curious to know how many she's run. Hard choice to pull her out to whelp a litter, now or even down the road a couple years, Good Luck !
 
#5 ·
To get the traits from your pups that you want, it is always best to find the dog in your line that exemplified those traits. The only way to try to magnify those traits chances of coming out. In outcrossing you may very well get a better dog through hybrid vigor. But that may be the end of the line for breeding. Can also be useful to introduce new traits. My dog is an outcrossing but both parents were line bred. And her lineage is similar to my males on her sire side in the event I want to breed them.
Hope this helps a bit. I sure am no expert but it's what I do know about the subject. Plenty on here know way more than me.
 
#6 ·
quackaholic said:
To get the traits from your pups that you want, it is always best to find the dog in your line that exemplified those traits. The only way to try to magnify those traits chances of coming out. In outcrossing you may very well get a better dog through hybrid vigor. But that may be the end of the line for breeding. Can also be useful to introduce new traits. My dog is an outcrossing but both parents were line bred. And her lineage is similar to my males on her sire side in the event I want to breed them.
Hope this helps a bit. I sure am no expert but it's what I do know about the subject. Plenty on here know way more than me.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about, hybrid vigor? He's not talking about breeding his Lab to another breed.
 
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#7 ·
That's what you get when you outcross and the pups come out great in spite of breeding blind. They may even come out better than parents. Maybe you get the wrong idea but it's common terminology among breeders of beagles and other hounds. I believe when I was young it was even brought to light by some of the old pointer breeders in our field trial circles.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Zap started her derby career at 16 months she ran 12 derbies in her career. She is with Clint Mann in Texas we are planning to hit some Q's early in the spring and hopefully running AA in the summer and beyond.
 
#9 ·
Then what do you mean by this? "In outcrossing you may very well get a better dog through hybrid vigor. But that may be the end of the line for breeding." Why?
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
windwalkers swan song said:
I'm very happy with my Mickey pups Charles, one of them in the avatar, 13 months , thinking Code Blue and Carbon in there would work well. Lots of ways to go mike with a stud, studied your pedigree I definitely like Ford in there. Your girl seems to be on her way, still curious to know how many she's run. Hard choice to pull her out to whelp a litter, now or even down the road a couple years, Good Luck !
Click to expand...
You are right about stopping to breed, It is way more fun to run dogs than raise em.
 
#11 ·
Mike, if you can get to some trials (maybe you do, I have no idea), watch as many dogs as you can, pick the ones you like, look them up, check out their record and health clearances, see how that potential pedigree matches up with your female's, see if it follows any other similar successful "nicks", contact others who have bred dogs you yourself have seen and liked, have been successful in the field you want to run, etc. You won't get any negatives on a public forum and you need to know the negatives of a potential stud/breeding just as much as you need to know the positives. Ask lots of questions, temperament, physical issues, all come into play, especially when you have a female that's already lacking size and has a temperament issue with other dogs maybe. Lots of studs look great on paper, but dig deeper.
 
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#12 ·
Sometimes the traits that come out in pups are good but the recessive genes come out when they are bred. Not always. Just sometimes. I used to breed beagles by outcross that made excellent rabbit dogs. But absolutely had awful pups. Thus the end of the line. But as long as the original parents are bred. Fine pups
 
#14 ·
Quack- I hear you. Labs aren't like bulldogs hounds and pointers. When I look at the pedigrees they all look scatterbred. People don't keep strains or family lines if dogs in this breed so much as they do the others mentioned. That being the case you won't see the expected "hybrid vigor" phenomenon in lab breedings per se like you would expect with a hard outcross in 2 hound lines. People shy away from tight pedigrees in labs.



For all that- i'd like to go toward the Ford side. Maybe I would look at pattons sabre if I had the ops bitch. And pick up fords brother Patton. Or I would look at Rev.
 
#19 ·
Rainmaker said:
What are you talking about, hybrid vigor? He's not talking about breeding his Lab to another breed.
Click to expand...
Here's a good blog post on the subject of hybrid vigor (heterosis) in dogs: http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/the-myth-of-hybrid-vigor-in-dogsis-a-myth

The author also wrote an excellent post on the popular sire syndrome: http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/the-pox-of-popular-sires

The author of the posts is Scientific Director of The Institute of Canine Biology. The ICB offers a number of online courses on genetics that could be of interest to breeders…or anyone who wants to learn more. There are other resources on the ICB website that look useful as well.
 
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