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1tulip

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
First: The good news! We passed.
Second: The super news! All the people (5 of us) that are in the same training group, who entered the test... all passed.

Third: The super great news! I spoke with the judges after and looked at my sheets. The judge said she liked my dog a lot. But for a bit of a hunt on a flier... she would have scored 4 10's on marking. She liked our blinds. Dog answered each whistle, took each cast, made consistent progress to the blind, we challenged the blinds... no big overs...and she scored us really well on trainability for that reason.

But: Here's the bad news. She crept off that line like it was hot. She wanted to be anywhere in front of me. On the honor, she d@mn near broke. It was a near run thing.

Consequently... we will train like the dickens for the next 5 weeks. Make her wait for everything in her life. (See this thread http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?97834-Creeping-Correction-1-Way) And enter the Senior at Sage Hens, snatch her off the line saying NO! HEEL! I SAID SIT! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! SIT!, thank the judges, load her up and drive home. That will be it for our season, and we may do the same thing when we enter a HT in February. And the next time and the next time.

I think her unbelievable passion and drive to get the ducks... probably a desire beyond my ability to feel (I let my prefrontal lobes tamp down such raw emotion and unless you're confined somewhere, you do too) ... makes denial at the hunt test the only way to translate what she knows from every other facet of her life. I think ultimately, that is the only solution, and one that will need constant maintenance.

But for the habits I've learned on RTF... she would have been GONE, especially on that honor.
 
Congrats on the ribbon.
 
Congrats on the good news! However, do NOT shout NO! HEEL! I SAID SIT! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! SIT! at a hunt test. That is training and is inappropriate at a test.

Get her under control without intimidation and take her off the line back to the truck. She will get the message.

Meredith
 
First: The good news! We passed.
Second: The super news! All the people (5 of us) that are in the same training group, who entered the test... all passed.

Third: The super great news! I spoke with the judges after and looked at my sheets. The judge said she liked my dog a lot. But for a bit of a hunt on a flier... she would have scored 4 10's on marking. She liked our blinds. Dog answered each whistle, took each cast, made consistent progress to the blind, we challenged the blinds... no big overs...and she scored us really well on trainability for that reason.

But: Here's the bad news. She crept off that line like it was hot. She wanted to be anywhere in front of me. On the honor, she d@mn near broke. It was a near run thing.

Consequently... we will train like the dickens for the next 5 weeks. Make her wait for everything in her life. (See this thread http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?97834-Creeping-Correction-1-Way) And enter the Senior at Sage Hens, snatch her off the line saying NO! HEEL! I SAID SIT! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! SIT!, thank the judges, load her up and drive home. That will be it for our season, and we may do the same thing when we enter a HT in February. And the next time and the next time.

I think her unbelievable passion and drive to get the ducks... probably a desire beyond my ability to feel (I let my prefrontal lobes tamp down such raw emotion and unless you're confined somewhere, you do too) ... makes denial at the hunt test the only way to translate what she knows from every other facet of her life. I think ultimately, that is the only solution, and one that will need constant maintenance.

But for the habits I've learned on RTF... she would have been GONE, especially on that honor.
Hopefully it doesn't get to the point where you could possibly loose control on your next test...
It sounds like you have a great training group and I believe together will prevent the weakness of your dog to overcome the issue...
Congrats on your road to the Seniors.
My penny..:)
 
Outstanding! Now you really know what you need to work on!
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Congrats on the good news! However, do NOT shout NO! HEEL! I SAID SIT! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! SIT! at a hunt test. That is training and is inappropriate at a test.

Get her under control without intimidation and take her off the line back to the truck. She will get the message.

Meredith
OK.

I'll say Sit. Heel here. I said Sit
 
Congrats on the good news! However, do NOT shout NO! HEEL! I SAID SIT! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! SIT! at a hunt test. That is training and is inappropriate at a test.

Get her under control without intimidation and take her off the line back to the truck. She will get the message.

Meredith
I respectfully disagree, if you know that the dog is out (picked up or dropped) "NO, HEEL" can be appropriate. It certainly beats letting him break and get a bird rewarding himself. I do not see that as a training at all, it is gaining control of your dog. Besides what can the judges do, drop you? You are already out, no sense in risking bigger issues by allowing him to break. Just my opinion.

To the OP Congrats on your ribbon.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
In fairness... I know not to yell, certainly nothing that would be heard by the gallery or otherwise bring down disapproval on the sport or the judges or that event. So, it would be urgent and crisp without being loud, necessarily.

I think the value of pulling her off the line would be lessened if there was any confusion in the dog's mind about why it happened. The denial is the punishment. Not the scolding.
 
In fairness... I know not to yell, certainly nothing that would be heard by the gallery or otherwise bring down disapproval on the sport or the judges or that event. So, it would be urgent and crisp without being loud, necessarily.

I think the value of pulling her off the line would be lessened if there was any confusion in the dog's mind about why it happened. The denial is the punishment. Not the scolding.
For Pete sake...enjoy what you have accomplished. You earn it...Now for the next step in.
Don't you dare beat yourself up for your dog's shortcomings.
This stuff is suppose to be fun..........
 
For Pete sake...enjoy what you have accomplished. You earn it...Now for the next step in.
Don't you dare beat yourself up for your dog's shortcomings.
This stuff is suppose to be fun..........
Not picking on Tulip but asking BJ ...who is responsible for the dogs shortcomings..? You are right in don't beat your self up but as the trainer we must take responsibility for the issues...tulip has a good game plan to follow before the next event and I hope it all works out for her with a steady dog ....Congrats on the first pass ... Work with the group on the honor issues ,not just one dog but let it watch several or all ...Put the dog on a mat and walk away and make it stay there until the training session is over...sit means sit ...and stay for those other folks...Steve S
 
If you can work on cold honors while shooting flyers, that will really help enforce steadiness. The excitement of the flyers will help make up for the fact it is a training session and not a test. Even when we hunt I usually hunt with another guy and his dog. If I shoot a duck and my dog breaks, I call her back and the other dog gets the retrieve. She knows thats her bird, but she does not get it. Vice versa, if the other dog breaks my dog gets the retrieve. She was on a dog stand 2 years ago, buddy shot a bird that landed right in front of us, she jerked but stopped herself, but fell off the stand. I had to laugh, she knew it was not her retrieve.
 
Not picking on Tulip but asking BJ ...who is responsible for the dogs shortcomings..? You are right in don't beat your self up but as the trainer we must take responsibility for the issues...tulip has a good game plan to follow before the next event and I hope it all works out for her with a steady dog ....Congrats on the first pass ... Work with the group on the honor issues ,not just one dog but let it watch several or all ...Put the dog on a mat and walk away and make it stay there until the training session is over...sit means sit ...and stay for those other folks...Steve S
You are right Steve... we are responsible for their training, but that is for another day.
Right now they should be celebrating the moment.
My penny...
 
Congrats on the pass with Rocket Dog. Sounds like her good marking and your anticipation with whistle got it done! :pHow did it feel for you on the line in a comp setting and not the training?
You know how I stand on the line manners. . . .
 
I've heard many a pro yell "No, heel!" or "No, sit!" at the line, or "No, get in here!" for cast refusals and other shenanigans out in the field. It lets your dog know they messed up, and that they aren't on your good side at the moment. Everything is training: tests are just more expensive training than the everyday stuff.

Congrats on your pass! I've been working on the same issues with my dog for the past 2 years, you can do it if I can.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Congrats on the pass with Rocket Dog. Sounds like her good marking and your anticipation with whistle got it done! :pHow did it feel for you on the line in a comp setting and not the training?
You know how I stand on the line manners. . . .
Yep I know the standard. And I know what the boss will say is the "cure". But amazingly... I felt pretty calm. When I'm tense is when the boss is sitting behind me. Having judges watching was a piece of cake... (in terms of my nerves, anyway.)
 
Yep I know the standard. And I know what the boss will say is the "cure". But amazingly... I felt pretty calm. When I'm tense is when the boss is sitting behind me. Having judges watching was a piece of cake... (in terms of my nerves, anyway.)
Why do you think you are concerned with the boss..? Isn't he /she there to help you ..? Not beat you up and tell you how bad you are doing as a handler...Steve S PS: Teach -train -reinforce - test....
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Like any good trainer... the boss uses the method that fits the pupil.

You make me chuckle a bit 'cause I retired from being a college professor. I got really tired of evaluations that said I was being too hard on the special little snowflakes. That was just training up the next generation of health care professionals. The boss has to teach us to handle dogs... something that REALLY matters.
 
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