I know most of us come from the other point of view – how to check out a breeder. What I would like to know is those of you that breed what do you do in terms of back ground checks on prospective puppy buyers. I have a litter coming soon and have a couple things I have done that have helped including – use people search on Entry Express to see if they have used the service, do a Google search of phone numbers & name and do a search on Good Dog info for their name. Of course I ask them questions but I’ve found there are some really good liars out there and they are the people I want to avoid the most. I’m not trying to be exclusive just protective of my pups. I’ve worked very hard to do this “right” and it would really make me mad to have some unscrupulous person take advantage of one of my pups and me. Puppy mills and bad breeders are like the drug trade – It can be controlled on both ends Supply and Demand. I don’t want to be the Supply! (first time post so cut me some slack if I messed this post up)
Puppy Buyer background checks - HOW?
Jason Gillette
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Joined
·
109 Posts
I know most of us come from the other point of view – how to check out a breeder. What I would like to know is those of you that breed what do you do in terms of back ground checks on prospective puppy buyers. I have a litter coming soon and have a couple things I have done that have helped including – use people search on Entry Express to see if they have used the service, do a Google search of phone numbers & name and do a search on Good Dog info for their name. Of course I ask them questions but I’ve found there are some really good liars out there and they are the people I want to avoid the most. I’m not trying to be exclusive just protective of my pups. I’ve worked very hard to do this “right” and it would really make me mad to have some unscrupulous person take advantage of one of my pups and me. Puppy mills and bad breeders are like the drug trade – It can be controlled on both ends Supply and Demand. I don’t want to be the Supply! (first time post so cut me some slack if I messed this post up)
Joined
·
1,365 Posts
You didn't mess any post up. I think it's a valid point and you've got some good ideas already. I can't offer you much more than go with your gut. My last pup I bought strictly through email. Both the breeder and I had each other's phone numbers and were comfortable with the sale. If your prospective buyers are close (I was state's away) then meet them in person and judge for yourself. If breeder's provide references to buyers, you could always ask the buyers for references. But usually you get that feeling about people that aren't a good fit.
Good luck with your pups.
Kourtney
Good luck with your pups.
Kourtney
Joined
·
6,462 Posts
Jason -
Just reserve holes on Paul's truck for all those puppies. Then, the new owner gets the puppy and a training contract.... you won't have to worry about where they end up....... :lol:
You have a wonderful bitch and I understand your feelings. I also wouldn't hesitate contacting the pro, if they state they use one, and see how much that person has really used that pro. Sometimes there's a difference.
Just reserve holes on Paul's truck for all those puppies. Then, the new owner gets the puppy and a training contract.... you won't have to worry about where they end up....... :lol:
You have a wonderful bitch and I understand your feelings. I also wouldn't hesitate contacting the pro, if they state they use one, and see how much that person has really used that pro. Sometimes there's a difference.
G
Guest
·ooooo, this is my department!
Everything you listed, plus get references from retriever people they know. And if they don't have any, but claim to run HT or FT, post on RTF that you need feedback from someone from such and such area (without posting person's name) and find out if there's a reason they don't have references...
It's a small small world, so unless someone's just starting out, you should be able to find someone that knows them.
-K
Everything you listed, plus get references from retriever people they know. And if they don't have any, but claim to run HT or FT, post on RTF that you need feedback from someone from such and such area (without posting person's name) and find out if there's a reason they don't have references...
It's a small small world, so unless someone's just starting out, you should be able to find someone that knows them.
-K
Joined
·
261 Posts
Hi Jason,
I don’t really know the answer to your questions about checking out puppy buyers but I do want to say welcome from another Green Bay’er! I’m not a field trailer (would like to some day when time and money allow) but I noticed on your web site that you hit the big water of the bay, maybe we’ll run in to you some time. I do a lot of training out by Long Tail during the hot summer months and during the season we can usually be found around Little Tail.
Nice litter by the way!
I don’t really know the answer to your questions about checking out puppy buyers but I do want to say welcome from another Green Bay’er! I’m not a field trailer (would like to some day when time and money allow) but I noticed on your web site that you hit the big water of the bay, maybe we’ll run in to you some time. I do a lot of training out by Long Tail during the hot summer months and during the season we can usually be found around Little Tail.
Nice litter by the way!
Joined
·
84 Posts
If they have ever had a dog in the past get vet referances and also personal referances and call them. I agree with whateverone else has said too but I would definatly check vet referances.
Jana
Jana
Maybe that's why a lot of people use limited registration..
If you're worried that someone might be buying a pup so they can set up a purebred breeding program and breed the heck out of your pup, that might be the way to go..
If it's someone you know and personally and respect as a good dog person, then I'd sell the pup with full registration.
of course, I've never had a litter of pups, so what do I know?
bp
If you're worried that someone might be buying a pup so they can set up a purebred breeding program and breed the heck out of your pup, that might be the way to go..
If it's someone you know and personally and respect as a good dog person, then I'd sell the pup with full registration.
of course, I've never had a litter of pups, so what do I know?
bp
Joined
·
6,638 Posts
With the litter I have now, I relied primarily on long conversations with the prospective buyers by telephone or face-to-face, not just email. Personal references are good, although I am more interested in vet references. I've followed up with a fairly continuous stream of correspondence with each of the buyers over the last several weeks. I tell them how the pups are doing and send them photos. I pay attention to what responses I receive. I've encouraged any buyers in the area to visit the pups repeatedly. That lets them see the pups and lets me see how the buyers interact with the pups and with my grown dogs. I figure that if I become uncomfortable at any point I will simply return their deposit. I don't want to be left feeling that I've sold one of MY pups down the river.
You have to decide if you are committed to having dogs go to field trial homes or not. I think most field trial quality litters have a mix of FT/HT prospects, hunting dogs, and companion dogs so I would prefer to have a mix of buyers. For those who are only interested in FT prospects, I want to have an idea of what will happen to the dog if it is a washout. While it is my hope to breed dogs that can compete successfully at the national level, I would rather know that my dogs will have a happy home regardless of their abilities.
You have to decide if you are committed to having dogs go to field trial homes or not. I think most field trial quality litters have a mix of FT/HT prospects, hunting dogs, and companion dogs so I would prefer to have a mix of buyers. For those who are only interested in FT prospects, I want to have an idea of what will happen to the dog if it is a washout. While it is my hope to breed dogs that can compete successfully at the national level, I would rather know that my dogs will have a happy home regardless of their abilities.
Joined
·
649 Posts
Jason Gillette said:
Yours has got to be the best "1st post" I've ever seen!
You are already doing ALOT more than most reputable breeders do.
One thing you can do that will help to eliminate alot of the pretenders is to sell the pups with a limited registration. You want to put a clause in the sales contract that when the pup reaches a certain level of performance titles and health clearances, then you will sign the papers so they can "upgrade" to a full registration.
This is exactly what I do. Note that I do not charge extra for the "upgrade" - I figure if they meet the requirements, they have spent enough $. Plus, I'm not doing it to make another buck; I'm doing it to protect the breed.
Couple of other things I've seen respected breeders around here do:
1. have in the contract that the breeder has first right to buy the puppy if the original buyer is selling the dog,
2. Insert a microchip w/ the breeders name, phone and address in the databank. I'm not sure I like this, but it certainly would alert you should the puppy go missing and is in some shelter somewhere unclaimed..
bp
1. have in the contract that the breeder has first right to buy the puppy if the original buyer is selling the dog,
2. Insert a microchip w/ the breeders name, phone and address in the databank. I'm not sure I like this, but it certainly would alert you should the puppy go missing and is in some shelter somewhere unclaimed..
bp
Joined
·
3,252 Posts
Sorry Chris, but if Jason wants to get his pups into field trial and hunt test homes, this isn't going to fly:
Selling puppies is just one thing you really have to trust your instincts. LR's a good idea in the abstract, but if you insist on them, you'll lose some of the competition homes you seek. I have sold some pups on LR but they went to pet/hunting homes who didn't want to breed anyway. And what about the pup that goes to an A list competitor but flunks out and is subsequently sold to be a puppy maker on a Labradoodle farm? I'd rather my pups go to a good pet or hunting home where they will remain their whole lives, then end up hatching out puppies til they're used up.
NO ONE I know who is seriously into training and competing will buy a LR puppy, especially a Lab, when there are plenty of full registered pups out there.
Selling puppies is just one thing you really have to trust your instincts. LR's a good idea in the abstract, but if you insist on them, you'll lose some of the competition homes you seek. I have sold some pups on LR but they went to pet/hunting homes who didn't want to breed anyway. And what about the pup that goes to an A list competitor but flunks out and is subsequently sold to be a puppy maker on a Labradoodle farm? I'd rather my pups go to a good pet or hunting home where they will remain their whole lives, then end up hatching out puppies til they're used up.
Joined
·
109 Posts
Well, first let me say THANKS for all the feedback. Now a couple thoughts – I would LOVE to sell all these puppies with (LR) Limited Registration BUT Julie R is right – Know one that is going to stick many thousands of dollars in training, testing and trialing is going to accept a LR puppy. As far as whom can have one – I think we all know that selling an entire litter to Field Trial homes is very hard to do. Also, I know some field trial people that I would not want one of my pup’s to go to – If they “wash out” (especially really young dogs) a bunch of dogs I’m concerned. So, regardless of the retriever game the prospective buyer’s play I want, as best as I can, people of GOOD CHARACTER. Even though my litter is a quality field trial breeding I would be happy with any buyer that is “a good home” Which is where my concerns started and your tips have helped. With respect to Micro Chip’s – I have all ready decided to front the cost and chip the whole litter at 4 weeks. I will be one of the registered people. I figure, since I’m paying for it, I have the opportunity and right to be on the records. First right of refusal is a nice idea and I can’t figure out why that would scare off a “good home buyer”. Lastly, I will be asking for references – I have not yet but I think I had better (Thanks Kristie!). In compensation for the buyer signing a comprehensive sale agreement I’m working on, and will provided, a comprehensive health guarantee. Fairness is a two way street. Thanks again for the help!
Joined
·
649 Posts
Julie R. said:
Funny, I didn't have any problems selling any of my pups with a LR. And I gave strong preference to buyers who wanted to run performance events.
I suspect that you're making this statement without actually trying to make use of the LR program. Not surprising, it isn't used by many people. Yet I think if more responsible breeders would use it, it would gain alot more popularity.
Mind you, if it were a puppy buyer whom I knew, or was well known and widely respected, I would almost certainly waive the LR and give them a full registration from the beginning.
But if it's someone I don't know, they get the LR. If I loose a puppy sale because of it, oh well...
Responsible breeding regards,
Joined
·
3,252 Posts
Actually Chris, I've sold CBRs on limited registrations since probably before you ever heard of them (1985). It can be an effective tool and is more accepted in other breeds than it is with Labs. So let me repeat: NO ONE I know who has a track record and is serious about training buys Labs on LRs. Why would you need to, with all the litters out there sold on full registration? You may have been able to peddle a few on LRs, but they are definitely not widely accepted in the field trial/hunt test community, not in Labs, anyway. Note also that I said no one I know. I do know people who have show Labs who commonly sell them on LRs or co-own arrangements and they seem to make it work. But it is not a widely accepted practice in the highly competitive world of HT and FT Lab breedings.
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Julie, I think that you are absolutely right.
When I looked for a pup a few years back, I called many people and the only LR was with a conformation breeder. I told her that there was no way that I would buy a dog with LR. She spent alot of time with me on the phone. The dog that we ended up purchasing has never been used for breeding - that was not our intent...
I gave her personal references from another conformation breeder (a different breed). What was interesting was that she was using it to prevent her line from being used for indescrimanant (sp) breeding but NOT to weed out good puppy owners.
After all of the discussion, I still was not interested in her pups.
Finding homes that are not going to breed your bitch puppy (to the dog next door or to the flavor of the month FC, for that matter) every 6 months or every year is a job of screening potential puppy owners. I would rather donate to a search and rescue group than to sell to someone who wants to make money by using a pup for breeding.
When I looked for a pup a few years back, I called many people and the only LR was with a conformation breeder. I told her that there was no way that I would buy a dog with LR. She spent alot of time with me on the phone. The dog that we ended up purchasing has never been used for breeding - that was not our intent...
I gave her personal references from another conformation breeder (a different breed). What was interesting was that she was using it to prevent her line from being used for indescrimanant (sp) breeding but NOT to weed out good puppy owners.
After all of the discussion, I still was not interested in her pups.
Finding homes that are not going to breed your bitch puppy (to the dog next door or to the flavor of the month FC, for that matter) every 6 months or every year is a job of screening potential puppy owners. I would rather donate to a search and rescue group than to sell to someone who wants to make money by using a pup for breeding.
Joined
·
3,252 Posts
Nancy, I agree 100 percent with this:
One way I approach it, especially with bitch pups, is to explain that breeding soundness is NOT covered by my guarantee, only hips and eyes for functional soundness. People that are genuinely interested in the dog and not the uterus are not bothered by that because any puppy is a gamble and there are so many intangible things that would preclude a bitch from being a good breeding prospect. This is one way to "scare off" the kinds of homes that only want to churn out puppies and think that because a bitch passes OFA and CERF she should be bred. There are more and more of those kinds of breeders these days with their slick websites and "good hunter" "Will run FTs/HTs after this litter" and yada yada. I'd rather my pup live inside with a family then out in a kennel as a puppy maker.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
