I wanted to get some opinions on how breeders determine puppy prices. I've seen some pups out out AFC-NFC dogs for $1,200 and some for $2,000. Just an example. My guess is titles, deep pedigree, breeder reputation, etc. How do you determine the price of your puppies?
Puppy Pricing
Langeandrew12
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From what I know which isn't much, base price seems to be set by the Stud fee, Ex; FC AFC stud A (few breedings)=$1500, pups sold for ~same. FC AFC stud B (popular at the time)= (a ton of breedings eventually became NAFC)= $2500, think it went up after the NAFC pups sold or were at least initially priced for same. FC AFC stud-Deceased known to be good producer=$3500-$5000, usually only a few of vials released a year (if there's stock). In all cases the stud owners might be highly particular or not, pricing of stud fee can be determined on what the girl brings to the table. This fee is usually well reflected in the price of any particular litter, general starting point if you will.
Now if were talking an FC AFC NAFC etc. Female; the price is whatever the owner decides he-she wants, if there are enough pups to get it released to the open market at all, might be well above $10,000. Still most will go to a list the girls owner has had in the wings for a long time, first 2 pups will almost always be female's owner and stud owner. Remaining might be highly priced, even on the A-list, but some will almost be free or traded to particular people, for a return later; sometimes depending on litter size the girls owner will simply keep the entire litter, train up and sell later (started dogs that might a great deals or incredibly expensive depending). Really depends on the priorities of the bitches owner, any particular FC-AFC female will not have many litters and who knows how many puppies will be in such litters (they are usually small); most owners of such girls tend to keep it so, the pups will be placed to get the best chance to succeed and work it so they can have access to their lines later. A lot of horse trading etc. I sell you one at this price, and you sell me one for the same price later.
Now if were talking an FC AFC NAFC etc. Female; the price is whatever the owner decides he-she wants, if there are enough pups to get it released to the open market at all, might be well above $10,000. Still most will go to a list the girls owner has had in the wings for a long time, first 2 pups will almost always be female's owner and stud owner. Remaining might be highly priced, even on the A-list, but some will almost be free or traded to particular people, for a return later; sometimes depending on litter size the girls owner will simply keep the entire litter, train up and sell later (started dogs that might a great deals or incredibly expensive depending). Really depends on the priorities of the bitches owner, any particular FC-AFC female will not have many litters and who knows how many puppies will be in such litters (they are usually small); most owners of such girls tend to keep it so, the pups will be placed to get the best chance to succeed and work it so they can have access to their lines later. A lot of horse trading etc. I sell you one at this price, and you sell me one for the same price later.
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How about Pricing when you see a JH title compared to a MH title on breeders. From sire and dam.
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You got someone breeding a JH run from it. Think about it, you have a bitch that can do a single, that's breeding stock? Think.
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There are several litters that the owner of the (titled and highly coveted) bitch keeps all the puppies and puts them with their pro and NOBODY gets a shot at the pups. No matter how much they're willing to pay.
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BonMallari, Hunt'EmUP, Polmaise and now Kajun Kamakazi have got it right. I know people who will NEVER sell to certain people and it has nothing to do with money.
I think your reputation , friendship, proven ethical behavior, dog contributions (club-breed) , willingness to help others impact the price if any.
I think your reputation , friendship, proven ethical behavior, dog contributions (club-breed) , willingness to help others impact the price if any.
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Situation right now, people desperate for a puppy of a certain bloodline, found one 12 hours RT, paid $1500, very lean on health certs even on the stud, in fact maybe no vet exam, because they brought the puppy home and there is something wrong... it can't see. What someone charges may have nothing to do with how good a puppy is. In fact, the trend is for unscrupulous breeders or down right puppy mills is charging more than a good breeder. People desperate for a puppy do zero research other than google. Learn what health certs are essential and learn how to look them up and be patient. I have a section on my website on what to look for and what should be red flagged. Rainmaker has written a similar article. Price is dictated by supply and demand, the reputation of the breeder, and knowing what you want and how impatient you are to buy into hype. FYI, FTlers buy from FTlers with FT titled females or occasionally MH/QAA females from a strong pedigree that they have seen run in competition. They can sell those pups for whatever they want and they do. Breeding a JH to a National field champion does not necessarily give you a dog capable of running field trials. Be prepared to do research and wait for the right breeding to come along. In addition, find out how much it costs to run field trials and analyze whether you have the disposable income to do that, or would you be satisfied with a dog you can hunt and compete in HT that was healthy, well bred, and has all applicable health certs. Know what you need. There are people who breed good dogs that want a puppy for themselves and will sell the rest of the litter reasonably. Call them up. I looked for many of my dogs for almost 3 years, and some just up and were there one morning and I pounced. Become educated, talk to a lot of people, ask the right questions, and not require spoon feeding. Many sales are based on ignorance, hype, and being told what they want to hear instead of research.
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Seen many litters like this as well. Heck I don't even have one of those types of females but I didn't announce nor sell a single pup from my girls final litter; kept them all close with friends that will run and hunt them. Very rare for particular bitch owners to put feelers out or even put up an official waiting list, until they know what they have; might take 3-4yrs after the pups are on the ground for them to even consider placing them. I can name a few FC AFCs, and NAFC bitch owners who kept every single pup out of their litters, and were still pretty disappointed that they had to offer the stud a pick pup for the pairing. Of course then there's those lucky few who get a call late at night, perhaps a bitch's owner has been drinking, but all of the sudden they have a new pup in their dog box, even if they had WAY too many dogs and were in NO WAY looking; also won't tell you what they paid for this new addition, but whatever it was they were happy to pay it.
.On the JH vs. MH pricing, for me it completely depends on the particular female, particular dogs. There are some highly titled dogs I would never consider a pup from, and untitled dogs that I'd be on a waiting list for. Price-wise I'd consider any (Labrador) with full health clearances and "real" kennel club (AKC-UKC) papers to be very fairly priced at ~$800-$1000, every once in awhile you can luck into something lower. But oftentimes $1000 can be hard to find. For instance couple of months ago I couldn't find any litters (in a particular 400-600 mile geographical area), under $2000 period. Finally found one for $1400, after multiple calls to many connections, all over the western sea-board. Strange thing was that the $1400 had much better papers, both parents titled, all OFA numbers listed, heck they even published the "official" dog names for everyone to see. Whereas many of the breeders that wanted $2000+, with really nice easy to find websites, just had AKC "health tested" labs; no OFA #, no official dog names, were listed of "champion bloodlines", but no pedigree link nor any way to look items up. Yet they had people on waiting lists ready to buy them, even had the friend; who was looking ready to put down a deposit, until they called up for us to check on it and we smacked them in the back of the head
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Ask more questions, for sure, but wouldn't always run. If the breeder thinks that the JH is the reason said bitch is worth breeding, then I would probably run. However it could be a very well bred bitch with some good reasons for breeding her that have nothing to do with that one title. I'd probably want to know the breeder and bitch well.
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I was looking to buy a pup. As I was looking and finding some desirable litters but we're in another state. The cost to get the pup to me was considerable. Things as, having it shipped, in that case you don't get to see the dog before buying. The cost of vet certificate, travel kennel, shipping cost, breeders shipper fee. Or flying out to get the pup cost of flight, travel kennel, pup flight fee. Or driving to another state to pick up pup. Fuel expense, motel, extra time, then if you get there and may not be impressed with the pup. All those costs add up, quick. Finding a local breeder that produces nice dogs from nice stock at a fair price is a good way to go. They don't have the overhead and price fair. The one thing that most people don't think of is the cost of training it takes that make those titled dogs. They just don't pop out champions.
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​Over the course of a career, the initial cost of a puppy can be relatively insignificant.
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What any particular breeder may do will vary. I don't know much, if anything, about how hunt test dogs are bred, marketed etc.
When looking for a pup, I focus most of my attention on the bitch. Good bitches tend to find good sires.
I have gotten good pups from my trainer who knew and trained the bitch:
FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie
FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
I have gotten good pups because I saw a bitch, when she was young, and asked the owner to think of me, when she bred the bitch
FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
AFC Freeridin Maserati
Both from Judy Aycock's FC/AFC Trumarc's Lean Cuisine (who I competed against in the Derby)
Some because I heard of a repeat breeding of a good litter
FC/AFC Freeridin Miss Kitty
Freeridin RHD (born in April 2016) sibling of FC Mudslinger's Amazing Vision
I am constantly on the lookout for nice young females. Whenever I identify one, I ask the breeder to keep me in mind if they ever decide to breed their girl.
With respect to the people that I know who breed their girls (including me)
1. Relationships matter
2. The breeders want their puppies to go to good homes
3. The breeders want their puppies to go to competitive homes
4. The breeders want to cover costs
5. Making some money is not bad, either
Ted
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Not sure I agree. I have seen some superstars and some duds from the same litter
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What if the JR titled dog is AMMO's sister?
Not that they will all be superstars, but that the genetic makeup is the same. They should have the same chance of passing these genetic traits on to the next generation.
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I know people who pay $300 a month for their smart phone and TV bills.
What is 10 or 15 years with a good dog worth?
What is 10 or 15 years with a good dog worth?
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Just because they come from the same litter does not mean that their genetic composition is identical.
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Think brothers and sister; are they all the same because they have the same parents? No the genetic make up is different. Even cloned dogs aren't the same.
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