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SueLab

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Got a call yesterday from a nice young man. He wanted to know how to get a JH and SH on his current dog. He has put down a deposit on a pup with limited registration. The pup will have field titles in it's pedigree (I looked..2 grgrgrandparents were JH). BUT if he gets a field title on his current dog (one of the previously mentioned titles), then he will get full registration on the pup. I asked him why that was...his response was that the kennel would be pleased if he would breed his field bred dog to this new puppy (all bench champions). The kennel wants to be successful attaining a dual champion.

I think that he is clearly being mislead about the success that he can expect from the proposed breeding (no clearances either). I asked why he is not getting a field bred lab - his response was they all look like greyhounds. The blocky head is what a real lab should look like. (I wonder where he got that idea?)

After trying to be tactful for 40 minutes, suggesting that he attend a sanctioned HT which will be occurring up in Angie's land, and that he join a local retriever club, I lost my ability to say the politically correct thing. I suggested that he buy a Rottie. He would get that great blocky look and have about equal success in the field and in attaining a dual championship as the kennel that he is in contact with desires.

I am disgusted that a kennel will only sell on limited registration(unless they can't sell pups - then anything will do). I am also disgusted that they are misleading this young man with the "carrot of the dual championship". And finally that they are encouraging him to breed when he clearly knows very little about the breed, clearances, and competitive titles.
 
Care to name the kennel? Obviously they sorely need advertising material, and are trolling for hapless, affluent, would-be puppy buyers to help them with this by offering incentives. Two JH's 3 gen's back does not make a field dog in my book.

Don't worry though, some semi-pro will gladly accept his money and help him put a JH on the dog - eventually.

Love your recommendation. If only the AKC would include Rotties as a premissable HT breed! Would give new meaning to "Respect the dog in the holding blind as you exit.."!!

(BTW, didn't we meet in Pt.Arthur? You're half of the Jake tandem, no?)

Mark
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
I wasn't at Port Arthur this season but maybe I met you another year? Jake is my son...I only ran Waterloo and Heart of Texas HT this year...

I PM'd you the kennel website..."leisure suit Larry" is the sire

What really upset me most was that this young man is probably courting failure. He is paying 1,000 or 1,200 (can't remember for sure which) for the pup.

Our club really offers help to members who want to train their dogs themselves. Many times, the new member has already purchased a puppy. If they are not informed, often they are extremely disappointed in the animal that they have purchased. It is a shame for those animals that should be pets. It is a shame for those individuals who want to be involved but cannot own several dogs.
 
Fire Angel said:
Wow! That dog is huge! I hope he has good genes as far as hips and elbows, he's going to need all the help he can get carrying around all that extra weight.
Oh no, that's his show weight I'm sure :roll: I bet the cut his weight down chasing after that FC title for his DC status ;)

FOM
 
Hey, where is the picture yall are looking at? I dont see it!
 
2tall said:
Hey, where is the picture yall are looking at? I dont see it!
psst - google is your friend ;)

FOM
 
I thought I mighta seen a rib for asecond, turns out there was just a smudge on my screen...

he's certainly a big fella, but I bet he's pretty good in the duckblind though, as he won't likely be too charged up to go get 'em...

I do hope it works out for the buyer though, and that he gets the dog he wants out of the deal.[/url]
 
FOM said:
2tall said:
Hey, where is the picture yall are looking at? I dont see it!
psst - google is your friend ;)

FOM
Psst - just be careful googling "leisure suit larry" especially an image search. :wink:
 
achiro said:
FOM said:
2tall said:
Hey, where is the picture yall are looking at? I dont see it!
psst - google is your friend ;)

FOM
Psst - just be careful googling "leisure suit larry" especially an image search. :wink:
Quite possibly the greatest game of all time.
 
rant

Hey Sue,
It's true there are some people in this world that are out there only to pad thier pockets and to ride the coat tails of others. I've known lots of people who have fell into this dual champion trap( Oklahoma kennel). I have a dog in my kennel right now that is a victim of this very kind of thing. The owner was told by seller that by AKC orders that if a dog is bought under limited registration that the animal must be modified immediately. This dog only cost the owner around 700.00, but if he wanted to buy this same animal with breeding rights he would have to pay an additional 700.00. Sounds like someone needs a trip behind the wood shed to me. This animal has a great pedigree and is a pleasure to train. It will be a shame that he will not be able to pass on his genes in the future just because some greedy B$$$$$d wants to line his pockets. You said it and i'll say it again. The people that are invovled with clubs could have helped both of these peolpe so much. It's really ashame that they got hit by the greety breedy bus.
 
SueLab said:
I am disgusted that a kennel will only sell on limited registration(unless they can't sell pups - then anything will do). I am also disgusted that they are misleading this young man with the "carrot of the dual championship". And finally that they are encouraging him to breed when he clearly knows very little about the breed, clearances, and competitive titles.

You have a serious case of misplaced anger. These breeders are doing 2 things bad and one thing good. But you are lumping them together like they are both a bad thing.

The bad things they are doing:
(1) proporting to sell a field-able dog with very suspect evidence.
(2) encouraging him to breed for suspect purposes down the road

The good thing they are doing: utilizing a very good tool (limited registration) to prevent this guy from breeding "like every other *******". After all, this guy is obviously un-informed - do you really think he should be able to breed down the road at all?


Or maybe I misunderstood you?
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
No, Chris..as I understood the young man, he did object and now the breeder says "oh well, yeah we will do full when your current dog gets it's JH or SH"...I don't see the sense in that logic. I also did not think that the breeding was his idea but perhaps I am wrong. The puppy from their breeding is not exhibiting that it is worthwhile to pass on it's genes when the registration hinges on the older dog being successful. If the kennel does not want their dogs used for breeding, they should refuse to sell to anyone who objects to their terms - otherwise, what is the point.

I have always thought and do believe that knowledgeable breeders use the limited registration to protect their kennel name, their breeding lines that they have developed over more than a few years and to eliminate indescriminate breeding practices with their dogs - which it appears is not the case in this instance. It appears that this breeder is giving lip service only to the idea, has no discernable lines to protect and is not at all committed to improving the breed.

And finally, to answer your last question...I certainly do not have enough information about what this young man might do in the future. Will he become a part of the retriever community? Will he get clearances for his animals? Will he not breed if the animals do not display the very traits that they should exhibit - maybe even past the JH level? Will his motivation for breeding be to produce healthy, talented animals or will it be driven only by the desire to make a buck?

There are many who produce puppies who have no business doing so (my opinion and we all have one). They don't rehome dogs that they have produced when necessary. Some don't screen the potential home to find a place for their pups in which they will be successful either as a worthwhile pet or competitor. Many do not get clearances or at the very least know what the possible results of a breeding might be.

Many times, the placements are based solely on who has the money up front first. It is dogs from some of these people that end up in the backyard forever, in rescue or in the local pounds. I would guess that it is these people who never donate time or resources to either group.

PS...I do not think that the breeder is the stud owner...
 
Although this sounds like a really weird case (having to pay extra for full registration?) I don't see anything wrong with limited registrations - we have way too many backyard breeders who don't know what they are doing and way too many dogs who are bred but should not be and this goes more than double when it comes to labs. I have a dog that I purchased with a limited registration - the breeder does not want her puppies bred to just any dog and not unless they are proven to be healthy - if I wanted to breed him (I don't) she would have to approve of the bitch I bred him to. Also I am not allowed to sell him or rehome him - he would have to go back to her if circumstances dictate I could not keep him. This to me is a caring breeder.
 
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