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#21 ·
If the offense is public criticism of a judge in a manner that disrupts an event, penalties range from a reprimand and a $100 fine (based on mitigating circumstances) to a 6 month suspension and $500 fine. The rules for dealing with misconduct are available at http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RDMSC4.pdf. The standard penalty is a 3 month suspension with a $300 fine.
 
#22 ·
Any Judge with half a brain knows that what they do on the weekend really needs to sorta go along within the confines of the Rules, Regulations, Suggestions, etc.

Just winging it cause it seemed right at the time sometimes works and most times don't. If Judges adhere to the rules, there is NO question regarding whether they did right or wrong.

Jerry
 
#23 ·
Good points, Jerry.

If the offense is public criticism of a judge in a manner that disrupts an event, penalties range from a reprimand and a $100 fine (based on mitigating circumstances) to a 6 month suspension and $500 fine. The rules for dealing with misconduct are available at http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RDMSC4.pdf. The standard penalty is a 3 month suspension with a $300 fine.
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That's assuming that someone is willing to "write up" the offender.

I'm waiting to see what LeAnne has to say about what happened from her point of view to cause her to post the question.

kg
 
#26 ·
Gun_Dog2002 said:
The process for misconduct is properly outlined in AKC documentation.

/Paul
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I love this board. I post this in reply to the question, and 3 people send me PM's explaining the process and then telling me to refer to the guidelines. I think the Monkey's have been drinking again...

Image


/Paul
 
#27 ·
Debthomas said:
To give you a hint.... it goes back to a discussion had on here as to wither or not you fail a jr dog if you touch the dog before you get the bird or do you give them a warning...
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They had their warning when they got the rulebook!!!!

The rest is ignorance if they didn't adhere to the rules. There is NO rule that says we should get a warning before being dropped.

If a handler is ignorant of the rules then that handler deserves what happens.

Jerry
 
#28 ·
Debthomas wrote:
To give you a hint.... it goes back to a discussion had on here as to wither or not you fail a jr dog if you touch the dog before you get the bird or do you give them a warning...
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I was only referencing a previous post.

however... I think that many times it is not ignorance that is the culpret as much as first time handler nervous.
 
#30 ·
Jerry, there's actually a section of the AKC HT regs/guidelines that deals with the issue of this sort of circumstance:

Part IV, Other Important Considerations for Judges, item 6: If a handler is doing something unusual (for example, giving a line to a dog before a bird is thrown) that might indicate weak marking ability, do not hesitate to advise him or her that the actions can adversely affect the dog’s scores.
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HT judges have a LOT of responsibility regards, :wink:

kg
 
#31 ·
Jerry said:
They had their warning when they got the rulebook!!!!
The rest is ignorance if they didn't adhere to the rules. There is NO rule that says we should get a warning before being dropped.
If a handler is ignorant of the rules then that handler deserves what happens.
Jerry
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cause to justify a grade of “zero” in Trainability/Control.
Chapter 4, Section 11, provides that holding or touching
a dog to keep it steady,
Section 11. In Senior and Master Hunting Tests, a
handler shall not hold or touch a dog to keep it steady,

Maybe we just can't agree on what steadiness refers to here but the last time I heard of someone talking about steadiness they were talking about "prior" to the retrieve.

Chap 5 section 3
"Dogs may be restrained gently with a slipcord, or held gently by the flat
buckle collar until sent to retrieve.

Some handlers like to line up for bird #2 before removing bird#1 from said dogs mouth. Hard to touch collar without touching dog but still no "RULE' against touching your dog on the return.

I agree that not touching your dog during a test is a good idea maybe it should be a rule but..............

[people used to pat their dogs on the head when they did a good job or tell them "good job" now there are rules against it]
 
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Discussion starter · #33 ·
No KG...I did not pursue actions taken upon the handler. Maybe I should have. To say the least it was "surreal". NEVER did I expect to see or witness anything like this in a hunt test, nor the retribution that followed from the handler. And I have been judging since it's (HT's) inception (early 1980's).

I am not new to the game by any means. I will say this...This type of conduct will NEVER happen again without me filing a formal complaint with the AKC. People that act like this should never be allowed to enter into a event and act the way they did without being REPERMANDED. I'll leave it at that.

The test was more than FAIR. The Judges where more than lenient. And to the person that mentioned in a previous post "fair test" I say strongly.. if your dog can NOT mark 65 yards or less on open water...they deserve to fail.

But then again, this was not my original question on this matter....
 
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Discussion starter · #34 ·
Touching/patting VS. Holding the collar while PULLING the bird from the dogs mouth are two totally different things. We WARNED about touching the dog before the delivery, many times to many handlers. Warnings were given.

Don't people understand what bird delivery/gentilly means (per AKC rule explanation)???? This rule doesn't only apply for the Master stake by the way.

Do handlers even READ the RULES before running their/others dogs :?:
 
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Discussion starter · #35 ·
duckdawg27 said:
Personally I don't argue with the judges even when I know they are wrong. It's just not my way. I usually just leave in disgust if I see someone slighted or more often a poor test setup simply meant to eliminate dogs so that they don't have to be judged. I notice in your post that you seem much more concerned that someone would question your authority than whether they were right or wrong. The ones (plural) that did argue with you I can't find it in my heart to disagree with them. When dropped I was polite to you and smiled and said not a word but I saw enough that I know I don't want to run under you again. (now I'm not at the hunt test so I will speak my mind and you asked for it by trying to get sympathy on this forum)

Good Huntin'
Kenneth
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Kenneth, Sympathy I do not need nor want.

I posted only to bring up a topic that I feel isn't discussed enough. Believe me when I say, that lean-ency was given to it's fullest for all. Since you did not feel it a need to approach my co judge nor me to look at the scores on your dog nor to discuss them; I assume you know what you need to work on.
 
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#36 ·
Your first and last posts both indicate your knowledge of the rulebook or lack thereof. That speaks for itself and made my point pefectly.

No ma'am my junior dog was not dropped nor was I for that matter. She failed of her own accord and the judges had nothing to do with it and that's the way it should be. Not the case for a bunch of other junior handlers. We all know that there are unwritten rules that we run under every time out and it is up to us to try to figure them out 'cause they are "NOT" in the rule book. I run under the assumption that I or my dog can be dropped "at will" without justification at any time because that is what I have learned from running in hunt test. But when it does happen don't try to B.S. your way through it by claiming " it's in the rulebook" . One last note...... don't fail handler #2 for what you warned handler #1 not to do. If you warned #1 then you should warn #2 ....and #13 etc. Apparently many people have been doing this for such a long time that they have forgotten what being "new" to this sport is like. How many of those new people you DQ'd for a minor infraction that's not in the rulebook are gonna be back?

Kenneth
 
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#37 ·
duckdawg27 said:
Your first and last posts both indicate your knowledge of the rulebook or lack thereof. That speaks for itself and made my point pefectly.

No ma'am my junior dog was not dropped nor was I for that matter. She failed of her own accord and the judges had nothing to do with it and that's the way it should be. Not the case for a bunch of other junior handlers.We all know that there are unwritten rules that we run under every time out and it is up to us to try to figure them out 'cause they are "NOT" in the rule book. I run under the assumption that I or my dog can be dropped "at will" without justification at any time because that is what I have learned from running in hunt test. But when it does happen don't try to B.S. your way through it by claiming " it's in the rulebook" . One last note...... don't fail handler #2 for what you warned handler #1 not to do. If you warned #1 then you should warn #2 ....and #13 etc. Apparently many people have been doing this for such a long time that they have forgotten what being "new" to this sport is like. How many of those new people you DQ'd for a minor infraction that's not in the rulebook are gonna be back?

Kenneth
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Kenneth, I will say, Junior is pretty simplistic and I've learned over the years to approach it this way. I have control for only about 1 second. That is how long it takes for me to open two fingers and release my hold on the collar. After that, sit back, enjoy the show and see what happens. If your training is solid, and the leaves aren't blowing, everything should be fine. I find it amazing that this type of life and death discussion take place mostly in junior. The standard is the standard. You'll be a lot happier if you quit worrying about what everyones else's dogs are doing and focus on the dog in the blind with you. If your dog is properly FF and holds the bird to hand, sits by your side, pins the marks then all this goes away. Thats the key to enjoying HT's... raise your personal standard higher than the level your running...

/Paul
 
#39 ·
K G said:
If your dog is properly FF and holds the bird to hand, sits by your side, pins the marks then all this goes away.
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In this scenario, add "and don't touch your dog's collar until the bird is in your hand" and you're good to go.

kg
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I've always counted that as part of the delivery to hand. The key to happiness is raising your standards and then realizing that at the end of the day they're only dogs. Its not life or death. Frankly I haven't had a judge tell me I'm out in years, when the dog doesn't hit my standard he gets the big "no here"....i propose we impliment "do a judge a favor and when it gets ugly pull your dog month"

/Paul
 
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