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When I was in school in Kansas in the early eighties I heard of a successful pro whose claim to fame was his ability to correct a dog in the field through proficiency with a slingshot! Anybody know who that might have been?
Pretty good slingshoter lived & trained just north of me!
 
When I was in school in Kansas in the early eighties I heard of a successful pro whose claim to fame was his ability to correct a dog in the field through proficiency with a slingshot! Anybody know who that might have been?
Somewhere in my collection of dog paraphernalia I've still got a few bags of rubber marbles :).
 
Helen Fleishman may have told on her but it was Eloise Heller. The dog was Nelgard's Baron. Eloise had his teeth flatten & capped so judges couldn't see puncture wounds.
Interesting - Eloise ran the NW circuit as she trained with Roy Gonia on occasion, the Fleishman's rarely.
Eloise was a neat lady!
 
Tony Berger produced Phil Berger (both deceased now) and taught Steve Yozamp--2012 NFC. Lawrence Martins , used a tree limb/inner tube rubber slingshot (Hall of Fame) but as he got older he could not get it to work and just cussed. Refused an e-collar. He did well enough to have Olin's surplus dogs. Check out your pedigrees..foundation stock. Check out as I indicated last year the 1957 National DVD , no white or very little with boat marks. FT not HT. When have you had 50 full body shell goose decoys in the field @ a FT? 1990s and one one in 2000s. Now they throw out three to the side. How many have had dogs swim thru them on a retrieve? Whose fault- ignorance and effort.
 
Tony Berger produced Phil Berger (both deceased now) and taught Steve Yozamp--2012 NFC. Lawrence Martins , used a tree limb/inner tube rubber slingshot (Hall of Fame) but as he got older he could not get it to work and just cussed. Refused an e-collar. He did well enough to have Olin's surplus dogs. Check out your pedigrees..foundation stock. Check out as I indicated last year the 1957 National DVD , no white or very little with boat marks. FT not HT. When have you had 50 full body shell goose decoys in the field @ a FT? 1990s and one one in 2000s. Now they throw out three to the side. How many have had dogs swim thru them on a retrieve? Whose fault- ignorance and effort.
Try to imagine those old pros changing the methods they trained 100s of dogs successfully...dad was the same as Tony and refused.
 
Try to imagine those old pros changing the methods ....
Try to imagine those old amateurs... They did not have the pressure from clients to change to an e-collar just their own stubborn ways. Having been in FTs since 1941 my father refused to have one of "those electric dogs that run with their tail between their legs". He finally gave in about 1975.
 
Try to imagine those old amateurs... They did not have the pressure from clients to change to an e-collar just their own stubborn ways. Having been in FTs since 1941 my father refused to have one of "those electric dogs that run with their tail between their legs". He finally gave in about 1975.
Tim, good to see you last weekend at the bloodbath on the Canal, er, LRC FT (and wasn't that fun?). If I may hark back to your "Judge this" thread of a week or so ago, how would it be judged back then if a dog on a no-see 'em blind forged ahead of the handler and got past the point of "no-see 'em" and looked out to see the blind unfold before its eyes? Oh, wait a minute, scrap that question - back then, that probably would have been 75% of the distance to the blind!...

MG
 
Wayne the difference between a ND boy and a MN boy perhaps? How did SD boys handle it? My Dad made mine from an oak branch when I was 6 and cut the rubber-MA. My grandson (13) has it now with the Red Ryder BB gun.. He got his first buck @ 12 with a shotgun. 6 pointer. Times are a changing.Stash is/was the bird hunter.
 
Hasn't anyone ever owned a Wrist Rocket ? Never used one on a dog ,but the neighborhood cats that used to stalk my pigeon coop were recipients of a few well placed shots,until Sheridan came into the picture
 
We SD boys used Y-shaped willow branch, cut strips from rubber inner tubes and placed leather patch in middle to hold the projectile. This is back in the 1950s-60s. Today's kids maybe don't know what an inner tube is?
You probably remember playing cops & robbers with an inner tube gun!
 
The first time I saw trainers using a sling shoot. The shooter missed the dog and shot the handler in the ankle! lol......
 
Let's ask this,could any of today's dogs perform today without the e collar?
There are certainly some who could, Judy often said that Cody (NAFC-FC Trumarc's Zip Code 444 all age points) could have been trained with a piece of garden hose. The most difficult thing to achieve would be control at a distance on blinds, I would also add that most of today's dogs would not have survived shotgun, cattle prod, and shotshell loaded quirt training including my current pride and joy (130 all age points) and his son.

The irony is that some of the old time pros who employed those methods thought electronic collars were cruel. 😳
 
Training; traditional/remote collar

Ed, this is a general commentary following your Post #36. And, only intended
to present History in a perspective - 'right or otherwise'.

In either scenario, 'single phase remote'/'variable phase remote', genetics had to
be there, notwithstanding the pain threshold. Elliot, Morgan, Pershall, D.L.,
Sweezey, Schomer, Huffstetter, R. Gomia, Baird, Voigt, et al were traditional and
utilized methods plain and simple described as fundamental and objective - "whatever
worked". Of course, thresholds varied. Some animals accepted stress, some did not.
Early training was not for the faint hearted nor the physically impaired.

While the early remote was/seemed to be a panacea for past routines, as I say,
many trainers Pros & Amateurs over did it. And, that hasn't ended today.

Distance has permeated the game - marks & blinds. I believe this has evolved
because of the variable remote. Distance has created ancillary issues directly
related to handler conduct on the line; excessive time & excessive lining to marks.

And, with many folks in the game comes other issues relating to determining the
"relative merits"; judging. Distance escalated as the remote became widely utilized
spawning - begging the term - the "tennis shoe" trainer. Good for the game on one hand,
clearly an impetus resulting in more competitive successful animals & handlers.

Of course, much improved selective (line) breeding has caused desired repetitive
genetics to surface. How that results in 'threshold' levels probably is also relative.

It's impossible to say that today's animals have a different threshold vs. 40+
years ago.

I think it is accurate to say that today's handlers - Pros & Amateurs - have a changed/
different way to find the "end of the rope" of success in training.

Respectfully,
WD.
 
Training; traditional/remote collar

Ed, this is a general commentary following your Post #36. And, only intended
to present History in a perspective - 'right or otherwise.

In either scenario, 'single phase remote'/'variable phase remote' genetics had to
be there, notwithstanding the pain threshold. Elliot, Morgan, Pershall, D.L.,
Sweezey, Schomer, Huffstetter, R. Gomia, Baird, Voigt, et al were traditional and
utilized methods plain and simple described as fundamental and objective - "whatever
worked". Of course, thresholds varied. Some animals accepted stress, some did not.
Early training was not for the faint hearted nor the physically impaired.

While the early remote was/seemed to be a panacea for past routines, as I say,
many trainers Pros & Amateurs over did it. And, that hasn't ended today.

Distance has permeated the game - marks & blinds. I believe this has evolved
because of the variable remote. Distance has created ancillary issues directly
related to handler conduct on the line; excessive time & excessive lining to marks.

And, with many folks in the game comes other issues relating to determining the
"relative merits"; judging. Distance escalated as the remote became widely utilized
spawning - begging the term - "tennis shoe trainer. Good for the game on one hand,
clearly an impetus resulting in more competitive successful animals & handlers.

Of course, much improved selective (line) breeding has caused desired repetitive
genetics to surface. How that results in 'threshold' levels probably is also relative.

It's impossible;e to say that today's animals have a different threshold vs. 40+ years ago

I think it is accurate to say that today's handlers - Pros & Amateurs - have a changed/
different way to find the "end of the rope" of success in training.

Respectfully,
WD.
 
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