My BLF will be a year old Sunday. We've got our JH title, and are now starting to run blinds pretty well. My question is what can I do to clean up her angled backs? She generally lines pretty well and I can handle her fine, it just usually takes more whistles than I feel is necessary.
Teaching angled backs
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My BLF will be a year old Sunday. We've got our JH title, and are now starting to run blinds pretty well. My question is what can I do to clean up her angled backs? She generally lines pretty well and I can handle her fine, it just usually takes more whistles than I feel is necessary.
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Eight handed casting drills.
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Is she not changing directions (under casting) or changing too much (over casting)?
Also a year old is generally too young to be really precise in taking casts.
Also a year old is generally too young to be really precise in taking casts.
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Don’t teach angle backs. Also, don’t teach straight backs either.
Teach your dog to give you a direction/destination change when you give a back cast.
The fewer degrees of change the easier it is to challenge the line.
Teach your dog to give you a direction/destination change when you give a back cast.
The fewer degrees of change the easier it is to challenge the line.
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What drills have you done to teach casting?
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Please elaborate.
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If a dog goes, but doesn't go straight back and doesn't go angle back, then the dog goes over or comes in, either straight in or at some angle. There are no other options.
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We've been doing the double t and she is solid on it. She takes left and right backs well, as well as left and right overs. If, for example, i give a left back and she takes a right back, i stop her again and we get it right. What I'd like to work on is when i give an angle back, she sometimes takes a straight back or an over, which most of the time will require another whistle and handle to get her on track. She casts well and in the right general direction, but I'd like to clean it up and run with fewer whistles. Looks like we wont be attempting her first senior pass until Sept, so we got a while to put it together. Thanks for the replies!
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I'd start with 8-handed/wagon wheel casting. When going through the casts, you want to put casting sequences together that show the dog understands the difference between similar casts(Right back-right angle back-right back) (Right angle back-right over-right angle back), etc. Once she has these casts down pretty well, you can move on to split casting drill.
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After TT and swim-by
Pattern Blinds
Blind Drills
Pattern Blinds with Diversions
Elementary Cold Land Blinds
This progression is from Lardy's TRT. The pattern blinds teach the dog to line to a known (taught) destination. Blind drills first add a diversion gunner and then mark to a single taught blind (typically the 1st blind drill is done on one outside leg of the pattern blind field). The idea with the introduction of the diversion is to create suction which cause the dog to be off line, then you cast the dog to the known destination. This is an angle back cast for the dog. After this progression is complete and the dog is running well on elementary cold blinds (blinds with minimal factors), you will start increasing the difficulty by adding factors and refining your casting to be more literal.
It would be unusual for a 1 year old dog to have progressed to the point where you could really hold them accountable for precise casting.
Pattern Blinds
Blind Drills
Pattern Blinds with Diversions
Elementary Cold Land Blinds
This progression is from Lardy's TRT. The pattern blinds teach the dog to line to a known (taught) destination. Blind drills first add a diversion gunner and then mark to a single taught blind (typically the 1st blind drill is done on one outside leg of the pattern blind field). The idea with the introduction of the diversion is to create suction which cause the dog to be off line, then you cast the dog to the known destination. This is an angle back cast for the dog. After this progression is complete and the dog is running well on elementary cold blinds (blinds with minimal factors), you will start increasing the difficulty by adding factors and refining your casting to be more literal.
It would be unusual for a 1 year old dog to have progressed to the point where you could really hold them accountable for precise casting.
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Look at it this way. You never whistle a dog down if he is on target. That means you stop him because he is off target. What you need at this point is a change in direction. If he continues in the direction he was going when you stopped him then that is a cast refusal. If he turns in the direction you cast him to and gives you a new line then that is proper handling.
If the dog will give you a five degree or less change in direction when you give him a straight up back cast then you can keep the dog in a fairly narrow corridor and challenge the “line” in an acceptable manner. Ten degrees will work but any more than that looks like a “ping pong”.
If you need a forty five degree back or an over it is because you are in trouble and the dog is well outside the parameters of the blind.
If the dog will give you a five degree or less change in direction when you give him a straight up back cast then you can keep the dog in a fairly narrow corridor and challenge the “line” in an acceptable manner. Ten degrees will work but any more than that looks like a “ping pong”.
If you need a forty five degree back or an over it is because you are in trouble and the dog is well outside the parameters of the blind.
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The split casting drill teaches and maintains the concept that a whistle sit means pup needs to CHANGE DIRECTION.
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Do you know what 8 hand casting is? Lardy shows in his DVD and booklet but doesn't dwell on it. Or include in his flow chart.
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8 handed casting is in Lardy's flow chart. Transition drills.
But the dog is barely through stage 1 of a multi-stage process. Need to complete the other transition work before moving to drills like 8 hand casting (which Lardy says doesn't transition that well to the field) or split casting drills (which are good for troubleshooting under or over casting) IMO.
The dog does not yet have the fundamental training in place to work on precision in casting.
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I agree with your comment don't teach straight backs. After the T pattern, dogs should begin to learn that straight back casts don't mean go straight back, but give a few degrees of direction change. But the 5 or 10 degree change in direction is an angle back cast.
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This. Usually we kick them off and get them to build up momentum when they are young, not stop them for precise casting. Have you done pattern blinds? You should be happy at what you have and just do a lot more blinds and it will come. If you micro=manage that could lead to bigger problems like popping in that young of a dog.
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I know 2 very successful HT trainers (you would know them if I posted names) that dont teach angle backs. Overs to get on line, then straight backs to the bird. You see their names consistently as PASS on EE and also passing the HRC Grand.
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Thanks for the replies guys, you've answered a lot of questions and provided great insight. I'll start working 8 hand casting drills, continue lining drills and blinds. With lots of repetition. I'm very happy with her progress and am giving her time to develop and mature some, I just like to have something to work towards. I'm fortunate enough to have a really nice pup thats been easy to train with tons of drive. I've just got to do my part.
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