I began my FF about a month ago. She has taken to the hold ok. She doesn't grip very hard though. I moved to the ear pinch and was getting a fair good response with some good reaching. I moved to the ear pinch with the bumper in hand. she started to do fairly well but very slow movement. I moved to fetch with the bumper at the end of the bench and ear pinch. I get very little urgency from her and have moved to pinching her ear against her choke chain and flat collar which still only produces mild results. A little help here would be appreciated as I'm at my wits end. I'm off for a few weeks and I hoped I'd be on the ground soon but 't look good.
My Own FF Problems
smokejmp52
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I began my FF about a month ago. She has taken to the hold ok. She doesn't grip very hard though. I moved to the ear pinch and was getting a fair good response with some good reaching. I moved to the ear pinch with the bumper in hand. she started to do fairly well but very slow movement. I moved to fetch with the bumper at the end of the bench and ear pinch. I get very little urgency from her and have moved to pinching her ear against her choke chain and flat collar which still only produces mild results. A little help here would be appreciated as I'm at my wits end. I'm off for a few weeks and I hoped I'd be on the ground soon but 't look good.
First let me say that I am no way at experienced at this. I'm FF'ing my first pup.
Maybe you should experiement a little with the pressure. You could be to light or to heavy.
Your looking for the point when your dog is showning discomfort.
I know very fague...but I'm learning that it really is up to the dog.. see my post earlier todo where I asked almost the same question
It's nice to see I'm not alone on this. You'll get thru this.. just don't put a time frame on it it. Maybe take a step back to just doing reaching fetch until your getting that confident prompt fetch.
Maybe you should experiement a little with the pressure. You could be to light or to heavy.
Your looking for the point when your dog is showning discomfort.
I know very fague...but I'm learning that it really is up to the dog.. see my post earlier todo where I asked almost the same question
It's nice to see I'm not alone on this. You'll get thru this.. just don't put a time frame on it it. Maybe take a step back to just doing reaching fetch until your getting that confident prompt fetch.
G
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·Make sure you're getting a snappy fetch at her eye-level (bumper,dowel,whatever you use held right in front of her) before you move on to the next steps (moving item farther away and lower to the ground).
My "stages" of FF are:
1) force and put bumper in mouth
2) force and require mouth to open with slight movement forward
3) force and require movement 6-8 inches in front of face
4) force and "walk" bumper ahead of dog (similar to greyhound race rabbit -- I don't FF on a table, so I can have the dog lunging a good long distance as I hold bumper right in front of them)
5) force with bumper gradually out in front and towards ground over a period of a few sessions
6) force with bumper on ground with my hand on bumper
7) force with bumper on ground with my hand coming off just as they are reaching for it
8) force with my hand near bumper but not on it
9) force with bumper only on ground
There may be little steps in between these, but this is my general expectation as far as each stage being snappy before I move to the next.
It's hard to get a dog to pick it up off the ground at all when they aren't snappy at eye level. Each step needs to be snappy before moving forward so you have as much "fetch" as possible moving into the next step, where there will naturally be some hesitation...
There are several very important things to remember:
1) your timing has got to be virtually perfect - the pressure MUST come off as soon as she gets the bumper in her mouth
2) the pressure has got to be enough to create urgency
3) praise is just as important as correction. make sure you are praising for GOOD FETCH and NOT NOT NOT after the entire sequence (many people save praise for after the "drop" and in this case you're praising for the drop. Instead, time your praise AT AND IMMEDIATELY after the FETCH. There should be NO praise after the drop UNLESS the dog is being difficult dropping...)
With that said, FF is very sensitive (duh) and it's very hard to tell over the internet what's going on.
The reaction you're getting is typically from nagging... this is usually because pressure isn't sharp or strong enough -- but is always the same, low pressure. Dog is going through the motions, but pressure isn't conveying urgency or creating compulsion.
Sometimes this is because the pinch isn't well-positioned. For most dogs, I have to reach in the ear and use my fingernail -- geesh, I hate talking about this...
I would place a bet that you're using the ear flap -- correct me if I'm wrong. And that's a very "un-sensitive" part of the ear. You've got to get into the ear, as gross as it is...
Good luck...
-K
My "stages" of FF are:
1) force and put bumper in mouth
2) force and require mouth to open with slight movement forward
3) force and require movement 6-8 inches in front of face
4) force and "walk" bumper ahead of dog (similar to greyhound race rabbit -- I don't FF on a table, so I can have the dog lunging a good long distance as I hold bumper right in front of them)
5) force with bumper gradually out in front and towards ground over a period of a few sessions
6) force with bumper on ground with my hand on bumper
7) force with bumper on ground with my hand coming off just as they are reaching for it
8) force with my hand near bumper but not on it
9) force with bumper only on ground
There may be little steps in between these, but this is my general expectation as far as each stage being snappy before I move to the next.
It's hard to get a dog to pick it up off the ground at all when they aren't snappy at eye level. Each step needs to be snappy before moving forward so you have as much "fetch" as possible moving into the next step, where there will naturally be some hesitation...
There are several very important things to remember:
1) your timing has got to be virtually perfect - the pressure MUST come off as soon as she gets the bumper in her mouth
2) the pressure has got to be enough to create urgency
3) praise is just as important as correction. make sure you are praising for GOOD FETCH and NOT NOT NOT after the entire sequence (many people save praise for after the "drop" and in this case you're praising for the drop. Instead, time your praise AT AND IMMEDIATELY after the FETCH. There should be NO praise after the drop UNLESS the dog is being difficult dropping...)
With that said, FF is very sensitive (duh) and it's very hard to tell over the internet what's going on.
The reaction you're getting is typically from nagging... this is usually because pressure isn't sharp or strong enough -- but is always the same, low pressure. Dog is going through the motions, but pressure isn't conveying urgency or creating compulsion.
Sometimes this is because the pinch isn't well-positioned. For most dogs, I have to reach in the ear and use my fingernail -- geesh, I hate talking about this...
I would place a bet that you're using the ear flap -- correct me if I'm wrong. And that's a very "un-sensitive" part of the ear. You've got to get into the ear, as gross as it is...
Good luck...
-K
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yes, at the middle to end of ear. how far up should I go....and what about using the collar. she has some cc on kennel and here's. she responds pretty good
G
Guest
·no collar in the physical pressure portion of FF. I'm not sure what program you're using, so I'll reserve my feedback to just the FF portion, but normally collar fetch is after force fetch and walking fetch (and sometimes stick fetch, but some of us leave stick fetch out).smokejmp52 said:
You're pinching at the least sensitive part of the ear...
I would venture to guess that you're just nagging her along.Hold the collar with the three "outer" fingers of your hand (pinky, ring, middle). Crap, I've been force fetching three dogs for the last three weeks and I'm trying to remember which finger I pinch with...
ok, got it, thanks to the 11.5 year old retired master hunter laying with his head half in my lap.... LOL
OK, so hold under the collar with those three fingers so finger tips are towards the head, your hand is palm up....
Reach over the top of the ear and into the ear with your thumb. First, make sure collar is snug (NOT tight) and up just behind the ears. Fit the collar properly before starting lesson. If collar is too lose, dog will spin and your fingers will go for a nice, numbing ride at some point...
Anyway, when you pinch, use your thumbnail into the ear (the bulby parts) and use your forefinger on the outside so that the thumb and forefinger are pinching together... like a crab claw. grrr... hate describing this because in most cases it's just not a big deal...
Every dog is different. Some dogs require very little pressure. Others require a good pinch...
-K
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61 Posts
thank you I'll give it shot
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Kristie, thanks for your great info, this is why I love this site. Dan good luck with your dog. I'm in the same position with my Daisy. Neil
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very excellent reply....I'll see how she does today.
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