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Hey Handlers! Does your dog have an eye in the back of it's

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Kenneth Niles Bora

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Ever watch a handlers hands? I am amazed and reminded and mindful of my hands after I watch a test. A walk up in the middle level is the best place to view, but it is seen everywhere. Waves, silent snaps, pats on the leg and circular get back to heel arm motions. All made behind the dog. All completely unable to be seen by the dog. Then the handler gets more frustrated that the commands given were not obeyed, but how could they be? Next time you go out think of this. Look at your training buddy. Have them look at you. Video tape yourself if you can. And remember, YOUR DOG DOES NOT HAVE AN EYE IN THE BACK OF IT'S HEAD!! And those of you who put your hand down for EVERY send. If it is behind your dogs head, why bother? Think about all the wasted effort of arm and hand motions that are useless because they are all behind the dog. Be mindful of your hands. Thank You
Ken Bora
 
#2 ·
I think the "hand behind the dogs head" is a couple of things.

Nervousness of the handler on the line, not paying attention to where the hand is placed, for example.

Experienced handlers will generally not have these problems. Why? They take their time, for one. They run a dog the same way when training as they do in an event; their "routine" kicks in.

The hand should be placed far enough forward of the dogs eyes so the dog does NOT look up at the hand; and takes it's eyes off of the mark.
If you watch the dogs eye brows for movement, you can see this. I put my hand high and just above the dogs nose, where he can see it without looking up, and release. The dog will run out right under the hand. No need to give a swooping forward motion of the hand; AKA "nazi salute".

The other thing I've seen from the "chair" is some handlers will drop their hand and release the dog at the same instant. Not good in my opinion. It tells me the handler is "maybe" expecting the dog to leave when the hand appears. That's a training error, and easily solved.

The hand is not providing direction, per se, but rather is telling the dog "yes you are looking in the right direction". At this time the dog knows whats next.
 
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#3 ·
What's a "silent" snap?

I don't use that stuff on walkups, but on the line, I use a snap (often without voice) behind my butt to get the dog to pivot its behind in slightly toward me. it's usually a very small snap because I'm just looking for a tiny pivot to get the dog properly lined.

The issues you saw were probably more related to low standards in training than the dog not being aware of where the arm or hand is. I bet even if these dogs saw the hands/arms, they still wouldn't have listened... :)

If a handler consistently puts their hand down towards the back of the dog's head, the dog realizes it's there.

I have a thing I do, it's automatic and I've gotten in trouble for it. If I feel like my dog is getting a little fidgety on marks -- and I automatically do this, it's not on purpose or to cheat -- my hand goes down to my side in a "stop sign" but so my thumb is right against my leg. That typically puts it in a position by the dog's shoulder, well behind their head. But they know it's there. I'm not sure when or why I started it, but I've done it several times automatically and was told once that I was steadying my dog. I didn't even realize I had done it, but have caught myself several times since, I think mainly I do it on the honor (which is ok).

Personally, I put my hand just above the dog's crown, technically behind the eyes. Hasn't caused any problems for me...

I do agree that it's important where people put their body parts (all of them, not just hands LOL), but the issues you saw probably would have been there even if the peoples' parts were in the right place!!! And part of it just has to do with how each person trains. A hand in a strange (IMO) position may work just fine for someone else, but my dogs may not understand it.... and vice versa.

-K
 
#5 ·
The content of this thread surprised me. I thought it was going to be about some of the indications that dogs can see directly behind themselves, even when running all-out.

I can't *see* how they see what's directly behind them, but they sure seem to.

Amy Dahl
 
#6 ·
Re: Hey Handlers! Does your dog have an eye in the back of i

Ken Bora said:
Ever watch a handlers hands? I am amazed and reminded and mindful of my hands after I watch a test. A walk up in the middle level is the best place to view, but it is seen everywhere. Waves, silent snaps, pats on the leg and circular get back to heel arm motions. All made behind the dog. All completely unable to be seen by the dog. Then the handler gets more frustrated that the commands given were not obeyed, but how could they be? Next time you go out think of this. Look at your training buddy. Have them look at you. Video tape yourself if you can. And remember, YOUR DOG DOES NOT HAVE AN EYE IN THE BACK OF IT'S HEAD!! And those of you who put your hand down for EVERY send. If it is behind your dogs head, why bother? Think about all the wasted effort of arm and hand motions that are useless because they are all behind the dog. Be mindful of your hands. Thank You
Ken Bora
Click to expand...


Words of wisdom given by the one and only Ken Bora!! Trainer extrordinaire!!!
Ken sometimes I wish I was as smart as you my friend!!!
 
#7 ·
Re: Hey Handlers! Does your dog have an eye in the back of i

Paul Stuart said:
Ken Bora said:
Ever watch a handlers hands? I am amazed and reminded and mindful of my hands after I watch a test. A walk up in the middle level is the best place to view, but it is seen everywhere. Waves, silent snaps, pats on the leg and circular get back to heel arm motions. All made behind the dog. All completely unable to be seen by the dog. Then the handler gets more frustrated that the commands given were not obeyed, but how could they be? Next time you go out think of this. Look at your training buddy. Have them look at you. Video tape yourself if you can. And remember, YOUR DOG DOES NOT HAVE AN EYE IN THE BACK OF IT'S HEAD!! And those of you who put your hand down for EVERY send. If it is behind your dogs head, why bother? Think about all the wasted effort of arm and hand motions that are useless because they are all behind the dog. Be mindful of your hands. Thank You
Ken Bora
Click to expand...


Words of wisdom given by the one and only Ken Bora!! Trainer extrordinaire!!!
Ken sometimes I wish I was as smart as you my friend!!!
Click to expand...
:shock: :lol:
 
#8 ·
afdahl said:
The content of this thread surprised me. I thought it was going to be about some of the indications that dogs can see directly behind themselves, even when running all-out.

I can't *see* how they see what's directly behind them, but they sure seem to.

Amy Dahl
Click to expand...
They must eyes in the back of their heads. Why else would handlers lean as their dogs stray off line? :wink:

Tim
 
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Tim Carrion
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