Holding a line on a hillside

Kirsty Gray · Jul 22, 2007

Hi All,

My young dog (8months old) is currently running marks of various distances up to around 100m. He marks well in most terrains but I'm having trouble with him on marks across the side of hills. I know it is natural for dogs to drift down slopes and to fade with the wind but I'm not sure how to correct it in this case.

He invariably ends up around 20m below the bird or dummy, and if the wind's blowing in the right direction he'll wind it and go straight up to it. With no breeze it takes a bit longer but he invariably still works up onto the bird reasonably quickly.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

BTW, I'm training amish!

lablover · Jul 22, 2007

You are throwing the birds uphill, right?

Shorten the distance between the thrown bird and the line.
TEACH the dog the concept of holding it's line from shorter distances, then slowly stretch out the marks back to 100-150.

Kirsty Gray · Jul 22, 2007

lablover said:
You are throwing the birds uphill, right?

Ouch! Got me there. I've been throwing them downhill

KwickLabs · Jul 22, 2007

Normally this is "taught" after the young dog is handling. Otherwise, what are you going to do when he "falls off" or "squares the hill"? It is the same thing as expecting a pup to NOT cheat the corner of a pond. 8)

mjh345 · Jul 22, 2007

What difference does it make if they are thrown uphill or downhill? They need to be trained for both. Make sure the dog can see it all the way to the ground, and as Jim says you can deal with it if it is a handling dog.

Uncle Bill · Jul 22, 2007

mjh345 said:
What difference does it make if they are thrown uphill or downhill? They need to be trained for both. Make sure the dog can see it all the way to the ground, and as Jim says you can deal with it if it is a handling dog.

H U G E DIFFERENCE for teaching, especially an 8 month old.

UB

Tim Carrion · Jul 22, 2007

mjh345 said:
What difference does it make if they are thrown uphill or downhill? They need to be trained for both.

Yes they do but initially you want to teach and encourage the dog to hold the hill. By throwing uphill the 2-sided dog is more apt to hold hill because it does not start out on the downhilll side and even if 1 sided, dogs tend to key off which way the gun is facing.

Tim

Angie B · Jul 22, 2007

Tim Carrion wrote:

By throwing uphill the 2-sided dog is more apt to hold hill because it does not start out on the downhilll side and even if 1 sided, dogs tend to key off which way the gun is facing.

Boy I don't know :?: Your assuming alot in line semantics here Tim. Why would a one sided dog be trained to key off of the gunners postition?? Also a 2-sided heeling dog is not that much uphill to truely help it fight the factor. Besides the 2-sided dog could be just as influenced by gun position as the 1-sided dog....

You must have wrote your comment before you had your pot of coffee....

Angie

Goldenboy · Jul 22, 2007

Until the dog is handling, try having your bird boy shoot (or "hey hey") and throw an additional bumper as the dog is in route.

Kirsty Gray · Jul 22, 2007

Thanks everyone for your help.

My pup doesn't handle well yet as I've only been doing casting drills with him on the mown paddock at this stage.

Oddly enough, at this stage he hasn't demonstrated a desire to cheat water even on angled entries (not sure why). So I've been able to progress water work quite well without coming to the same brick wall as the hill-side issue.

If I start handling on marks at this early stage will it cause issues such as the dog not hunting independantly? Or popping?

Sorry if they're silly questions - just trying to get this right!

Kirsty Gray · Jul 22, 2007

Goldenboy said:
Until the dog is handling, try having your bird boy shoot (or "hey hey") and throw an additional bumper as the dog is in route.

I was doing this some time ago but stopped when I found my pup would, as soon as he became unsure of himself, stop and look for the thrower to throw him another dummy! It only took a couple of "assisted throws" for this behaviour to set in. If another dummy wasn't thrown he would either go over to the thrower and stand WITH him or try to come back in to me.

Everything I've read suggests that assistance from the thrower rarely causes problems such as this. Guess I just got (un)lucky?! :?

Angie B · Jul 22, 2007

flatout wrote:

If I start handling on marks at this early stage will it cause issues such as the dog not hunting independantly? Or popping?

Yes,,,, If you don't have the training on the dog to teach the lesson your trying to teach,,, then don't teach it....

Angie

Goldenboy · Jul 22, 2007

flatout said:
Goldenboy said:

Until the dog is handling, try having your bird boy shoot (or "hey hey") and throw an additional bumper as the dog is in route.

Click to expand...

I was doing this some time ago but stopped when I found my pup would, as soon as he became unsure of himself, stop and look for the thrower to throw him another dummy! It only took a couple of "assisted throws" for this behaviour to set in. If another dummy wasn't thrown he would either go over to the thrower and stand WITH him or try to come back in to me.

Everything I've read suggests that assistance from the thrower rarely causes problems such as this. Guess I just got (un)lucky?! :?

Maybe you have extended the dog on concepts (or marks in general) too fast? Go back and start teaching side-hill marks incrementally. Short to long, increasing slope. There's no shame in stepping back and doing it right. 8 months old, plenty of time ahead.

Uncle Bill · Jul 22, 2007

Goldenboy said:
flatout said:

Goldenboy said:

Until the dog is handling, try having your bird boy shoot (or "hey hey") and throw an additional bumper as the dog is in route.

Click to expand...

I was doing this some time ago but stopped when I found my pup would, as soon as he became unsure of himself, stop and look for the thrower to throw him another dummy! It only took a couple of "assisted throws" for this behaviour to set in. If another dummy wasn't thrown he would either go over to the thrower and stand WITH him or try to come back in to me.

Everything I've read suggests that assistance from the thrower rarely causes problems such as this. Guess I just got (un)lucky?! :?

Click to expand...

Maybe you have extended the dog on concepts (or marks in general) too fast? Go back and start teaching side-hill marks incrementally. Short to long, increasing slope. There's no shame in stepping back and doing it right. 8 months old, plenty of time ahead.

There ya go...advice you can take to the bank!

UB

Kirsty Gray · Jul 22, 2007

That makes good sense. Will do.

Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it!

Holding a line on a hillside

Kirsty Gray

lablover

Kirsty Gray

KwickLabs

mjh345

Uncle Bill

Tim Carrion

Angie B

Goldenboy

Kirsty Gray

Kirsty Gray

Angie B

Goldenboy

Uncle Bill

Kirsty Gray

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