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Steady at line - eliminating half step

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jroberts

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I noticed that my 11month old male was taking a half step with one of his front feet each time a mark was thrown. His butt was not coming off the ground but i was still thinking the half step could turn into a full step or more at a test/trial. I talked to a few people and went back to OB walking a circle around him and telling him no for any movement with his front feet. added more distractions each time. Today while training I did hand thrown marks from my side and did not release him until he was motionless. took around 10 to get him to be complete still. Adding more excitement brought the step back so we will slowly work out way up to ducks with poppers, flyers, and so on.

One thing i noticed was when i get to the line I could step forward slightly so that his feet were planted square to the mark which helped a lot. if his front feet were not square he would take the half step or attempt to.

Anyone had issues with this and found a better solution?
 
#3 ·
Everyone has had to train this, some with more success than others. A place board helps a lot. The biggest thing is to line him up correctly every time and watch his feet, maintaining your standards, correcting as you are doing, then denying the retrieve until he is perfectly still. Half a step in training is 6 feet out front at a test or trial. Train in different places because dogs are very situational. Being perfectly still in one location does not always translate to being still in a different location. Everything you train must be taught, tested, then generalized to new locations or situations and tested again. You know you have a behavior well taught when you get the same response in any location with high levels of distraction.
 
#4 ·
I have noted that my 9 month old will do that occasionally when I am at his side throwing a bumper, especially the first one or two. But if I step away from him he does not move. I think being so close to the "wind up" might be part of it. Still no excuse and it is corrected, but I tend to step away from him to establish a better habit without correction.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
I want to mention that when I run a blind with him and say "right there" he does this same step as well, almost like a signal that he knows what is going on or where to go. One person i spoke with seems to think this could be a positive thing since you know the dog sees the mark each time if he steps. I still feel his body and head should be still as possible for marks.
 
#6 ·
Over the years I have gotten away from place boards. I watch the dog carefully rather than look at the bird (or at least I try to). Movement is simply a violation of sit. Use whatever correction you used for sit. I would suggest you review Hillman's traffic cop technique. It has helped my dogs a bunch. In my case it is a constant maintenance issue. It seems about every three months Rowdy needs a correction for pitter patter.
I would not hit his feet but on the butt (if that is what you did for sit). Remember enforce what he knows.
Just my two cents.
 
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#7 ·
Something I do in training fairly frequently is when the mark is thrown, take a step backwards and make the dog 'think' he crept and give a heel-nick correction. After a few times(usually not many) the correction is no longer needed. The dog will heel back with you when you step. He becomes more aware of his position relative to you and knows that he must remain at heel to get the bird.
 
#9 · (Edited)
jroberts said:
I used the heeling stick on his feet as soon as he moved one of them.

Anyone had issues with this and found a better solution?
Click to expand...
What? What? Do me a favor and have a training buddy crack you across the top of the foot (bare) or the knuckles with a heeling stick!

I've been keeping out of this stuff but COME ON people. No one says anything about this?

These are our companions, our friends and in some cases our KIDS.

Here's a plan that will work - and no one will like...

Put a long line on the dog 10' or so and just casually walk to the line. Stop fighting the dog the whole way there over perfect heeling, just keep him relatively close and walk up there in a RELAXED manner.

Get Hillman's heeling material and teach the dog to heel AWAY from retrieving first.

Now back to the field - Get to the line and immediately cue a silent throw from an obvious gunner. Don't even worry about the dog sitting. Release the dog before he moves his feet. Just get a 1/2 second motionless pause. Practice this with a bit of a delay in the release and bit by bit work it to where he will sit motionless until the bird is on the ground for a few seconds like it normally would be.

Now add a shot and do the same sequence.

Now add a duck call (1 quack, then 2 quacks, etc)...

All this nag nag naggity nag people do with prong collars and e collars and trying to get a perfect heel AMPS THE DOG UP ANS REMOVES HIS NEED TO ACTUALLY THINK.

Flame away high standard conflict based obedience trainers - flame away.

P.S. there's nothing in the rules that say the dog has to sit - just that he has to be steady - which is pretty loosely interpreted these days in a lot of places anyway. What if I told you making your dog sit is part of the problem, not part of the solution? Yep - nutso, I know.
 
#10 ·
Actually, if the dog keeps his butt planted, worrying about a foot may be counter-productive, especially in a young dog. IMHO
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
Wayne Nutt said:
Over the years I have gotten away from place boards. I watch the dog carefully rather than look at the bird (or at least I try to). Movement is simply a violation of sit. Use whatever correction you used for sit. I would suggest you review Hillman's traffic cop technique. It has helped my dogs a bunch. In my case it is a constant maintenance issue. It seems about every three months Rowdy needs a correction for pitter patter.
I would not hit his feet but on the butt (if that is what you did for sit). Remember enforce what he knows.
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
I have followed the Traffic cop method but he doesnt expand on what to do if the dog is not motionless as you introduce more and more diversions.
 
#13 ·
ErinsEdge said:
Actually, if the dog keeps his butt planted, worrying about a foot may be counter-productive, especially in a young dog. IMHO
Click to expand...
Unless he is like my pup, who has now figured out to keep his planted and he literally slides his butt/back legs forward. I watched it closely and he does NOT lift his butt. Needless to say he did not get a retrieve when he did that. But I had to laugh, hope that his intelligence can be used for good, LOL.
 
#14 ·
ErinsEdge said:
Actually, if the dog keeps his butt planted, worrying about a foot may be counter-productive, especially in a young dog. IMHO
Click to expand...
That would depend on the young dog, some require zero tolerance or the problem escalates.
 
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#15 ·
At least for my labs, they quicky learned that if they move their feet,
or lift their butt, they do not get to retrieve.

I think a consistent sit standard, that they only can move their head
is a clear, black and white standard.
 
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