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Ted Shih - Thank You!

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Newf

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Thank you Ted! Your recent string of threads on judging, and marking have generated some great discussion, and brought forward interesting points directly related to the dog games. Its threads like these that I love to read, and I'm sure others can agree. So once again thank you for taking the time to compile your thoughts and generate some great threads!

Looking forward to future threads.

Newf.
 
#5 ·
IdahoLabs said:
X2. I don't know enough to contribute but I've really enjoyed reading the discussions and have learned a ton. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Ok.

Two questions:
1) What has been most meaningful to you?
2) What is it that you would like to explore further?

Ted
 
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#6 ·
Ted Shih said:
Ok.

Two questions:
1) What has been most meaningful to you?
2) What is it that you would like to explore further?

Ted
Click to expand...
I am not a judge but that is a long term goal (HT).

The "Elements of a good mark" thread has been the most meaningful. Soon, we will start getting ready to run master tests next spring. I train mostly alone. I set up my wingers without a lot of thought other than something short and something long...

All of the marking stuff (bird placement) has been useful.
 
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Discussion starter · #7 ·
Dave Farrar said:
I am not a judge but that is a long term goal (HT).

The "Elements of a good mark" thread has been the most meaningful. Soon, we will start getting ready to run master tests next spring. I train mostly alone. I set up my wingers without a lot of thought other than something short and something long...

All of the marking stuff (bird placement) has been useful.
Click to expand...
Maybe build on this^. How one mark sets up or compliments another.
 
#9 ·
Thank u to all our members with experience and knowledge that take the time to post on this forum. It really does help us who are new to this learn. This is not the easiest sport to learn so thank u Ted and others on here for sharing what y'all have learned over the many years.
 
#10 ·
.....what to explore more.....
If people talk about
1)setting up marks that should be seen to the ground
2) not putting gun stations out so the dog can't hardly pick them out...ie...hiding behind trees, bushes...etc
3) sunrises in the east BUT test still set up in the sun for early dogs
Why do people still set up this kind of test when they talk like they know better??....Randy
 
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#11 · (Edited)
Randy Bohn said:
.....what to explore more.....
If people talk about
1)setting up marks that should be seen to the ground
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FT rules clearly state “a bird should be seen in the air and as it falls” does not mean to the ground only that it reaches it’s peak and starts down. The much more important part is that the dog can see the bird in the first part of the throw. Rex did an exercise with his pupils, watch the bird thrown, close your eyes, and tell me where the bird is. It is easy to imagine the falling part but not easy to imagine without seeing the thrown part. If a bird is visible for 2/3 of it’s arc that is acceptable by the rules.

And “the guns should be conspicuous and easily identified”.
 
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#12 ·
EdA said:
FT rules clearly state “a bird should be seen in the air and as it falls” does not mean to the ground only that it reaches it’s peak and starts down. The much more important part is that the dog can see the bird in the first part of the throw. Rex did an exercise with his pupils, watch the bird thrown, close your eyes, and tell me where the bird is. It is easy to imagine the falling part but not easy to imagine without seeing the thrown part. If a bird is visible for 2/3 of it’s arc that is acceptable by the rules.

And “the guns should be conspicuous and easily identified”.
Click to expand...
Don’t entirely agree on that Ed. “As it falls” means a little more to me than starting down. I can probably live with not seeing it hit the ground in some cases, but it should be pretty dang close to the ground IMO if for no other reason than air time. Not all throws are high sweeping arcs. At weekend trials you might be lucky to get an arc.
 
#13 ·
our perspective and the dog’s perspective are different, sit on the ground and watch the throws to get their perspective
 
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#14 ·
“the guns should be conspicuous and easily identified”.

This is EXTREMELY important and is completely under the judges control. In tough lighting, put 2 guns on the station, or shoot twice. If ajudge or handler can only see the gun from the waist up from the line, what do you think the dog can see?

You can have great throws and be able to see them all the way to the ground, but if the dog can't find the guns before the action starts, it doesn't know where to look. -Paul
 
#15 ·
On those long marks dogs can't easily pick out, tipping the birdboy to add motion when you're on line helps. :p
 
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#16 ·
Ted Shih said:
Ok.

Two questions:
1) What has been most meaningful to you?
2) What is it that you would like to explore further?

Ted
Click to expand...
1. The discussions on marking and how to set up a good mark. I train several different venues (besides field work) and am often alone. I need to focus on making the most of the limited opportunity I have with someone in the field to set up a mark that teaches a concept or benefits my dog, not just throwing a bird to throw a bird.

2. Topics
A. With #1 in mind, much of what's discussed in recent posts focused on identifying the best marking dogs in a trial situation. How does one make a good marker better in training? I know the great ones don't come out of the whelping box doing challenging 400 yard marks.
B. What are bad habits a dog can develop in terms of marking, how do they develop and how does a trainer avoid them?
C. How about the other important factors eg perseverance, how do we develop them, what poor habits are encountered, and how do we avoid creating bad habits?
D. What are the most common handler mistakes at a trial that make a good marking dog look like a poor marker?

...something along those lines anyway.
 
#17 ·
EdA said:
our perspective and the dog’s perspective are different, sit on the ground and watch the throws to get their perspective
Click to expand...
AMEN to this, You must have a knee on the ground or your butt, just bending at the waist is still way to high.
Ran a Qual 2 years ago, mid-range retired to the left, longer middle bird and flyer to the right. Shot left to right. We were on a mound but due to cover when the middle sat in his chair he was NOT visible to the dog. So to the dog's perspective, 2 retired guns, until they got close to that middle gun. Not what caused us to fail. My dog almost always choses to do outside, outside, inside, when doing a triple and an outside bird is the go bird. Got the flyer, I heeled her to see which mark she wanted next and she appeared to look at the left retired mark. Right after I sent her she decided to go to the middle bird and since she was not focused on the right spot, ended up too far right into the flyer fall/scent zone, picked up. She lied to me on which mark to get second. Not something she has done before. Not sure what I could have done differently, stuff happens.
 
#18 ·
paul young said:
“the guns should be conspicuous and easily identified”.

This is EXTREMELY important and is completely under the judges control. In tough lighting, put 2 guns on the station, or shoot twice. If ajudge or handler can only see the gun from the waist up from the line, what do you think the dog can see?

You can have great throws and be able to see them all the way to the ground, but if the dog can't find the guns before the action starts, it doesn't know where to look. -Paul
Click to expand...
Thank you for your insight.
G
 
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#19 ·
Ted, Thanks for bringing all of these ideas to the attention of those who read and participate here.

I know you're kind of sticking your neck out and making yourself subject to some comments that may not be all that fun to receive.

Thanks!

I am going to go ahead and post a topic that's a spin off of one of these discussions around retired guns.

Chris
 
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