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Walking Baseball Poll

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How sure are you that you really understand Walking Baseball, and to what extent?

  • I don't know how to run the drill

    Votes: 40 31%

  • I know how to run it, but only at a Basic level

    Votes: 42 32%

  • I know how to run it at a Basic level, and how to advance it, except not to an Advanced level

    Votes: 25 19%

  • I know it all!

    Votes: 24 18%
  • Total voters
    131
  • Poll closed .
21 - 40 of 143 Posts
Discussion starter · #21 · (Edited)
cstallings said:
Where can I find out how to set this drill up? I doubt I can find an old copy of the retriever journal.
Click to expand...
On page 46 of the April/May 2005 issue of the Retriever Journal, I wrote an article titled "Walking Baseball Fundamentals". I'm trying to set aside time today to post it up on my website at www.rushcreekpress.com

This is amazing! 13 people have posted "I know it all!" Betcha'don't!
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Evan
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Gun_Dog2002 said:
You forgot 2 other options.

1. I know how to run it at an advanced level.
2. I have other drills that work better in my program.

/Paul
Click to expand...
Questions about these options:

  1. How advanced?
  2. Work better to achieve what goals, and can they also be run alone?
Evan
Image
 
#24 ·
In my Amish days, I tried to follow DL's book to the letter.

In my non-Amish days of recent, I have tried to follow more modern programs, (which do not specifically call for walking baseball as part of the curriculum) to the letter.

I am still doing variations of walking baseball.

To me, the purpose is to help the dog transfer the casting mechanics learned in three-handed casting, double T drills and swim-by over to "the field". The drill helps the dog connect the casts as being much more directly related to going in a direction, with respect to his position relative to his handler, as opposed to going to a known location through repetition.

The drill allows the handler to incorporate any host of factors or "diversions" such as: Cover, sidehills, water entries, water exits, cover changes, etc. etc.

I do not think that DL ever intended his drill to be followed step by step in all fields. I think DL intended to show a trainer a way to start the drill in a flat, featureless field. Then he left it to the trainer to add this to his bag of tricks for use later in other locations.

Who knows....maybe my interpretation of "walking baseball" is very different from what DL intended! Maybe my interpretation will be different from the product that it appears Evan will be introducing.

To first learn Walking Baseball, I suggest that one fold an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper in half widthwise then lengthwise, and break the field down into quarters to diagram your drill....start in the one quadrant, work that piece, gradually backing your way out, over and across. After you diagram it once, you should put the paper away and go do it in the field. It is a lot like hanging wallpaper or painting. After you do it a few times, you learn how to plan your steps to keep from getting painted into a corner, or winding up needing a crazy piece of wallpaper to cover a small piece of wall.

Dog training is more art than science. I think that Walking Baseball is a perfect example of where the artist puts together something unique. Each time you build the piece, it will look a little different than the last and you adjust as-needed.

Chris
 
#25 ·
Evan said:
Questions about these options:
  1. How advanced?
  2. Work better to achieve what goals, and can they also be run alone?
Evan
Image
Click to expand...
Hmm. How advanced? I guess that would be an opinion wouldn't it? There are no absolutes in dog training. What what dog needs others won't. Also what works for some dogs, won't work for others. You could say that to follow the steps perfectly as outlined in your material every time with every dog would be advanced. Yet that may or may not really help the dog in work at the time. Like anything in dog training, drills are only successful if your able to read the dog, understand if the reaction your getting is helping or confusing the dog and making adjustments from there. So to answer your question, can I do the baseball 2 step with a little foxtrot mixed in? Sure thing. Is it really helping the dog in front of me, hard to say....

/Paul
 
#27 · (Edited)
Great post Chris! I am comfortable with my understanding of this drill, but somebody has certainly figured out some new application - therefore I don't know it all. In my mind, that is much of the beauty of the drill - it has so much versatility. With that said, IMO it is basically a confidence building drill for nearly any aspect of casting on land. At least that's how I use it.

What do you think Evan?
 
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Discussion starter · #28 ·
I agree, in principle, with Chris's assessment of the drill. I think there is a misunderstanding of my intentions, though. First, there has not been any determination of whether or not a new DVD devoted entirely to WBB is needed.

Second, when I speak of a specific way to run the drill I'm not asserting that there is only one course a trainer must walk each time, or one place relative to the dog in which the secondary bumper must be placed each time, or any of that. What D.L. created that makes this flexible drill so useful was a standard procedure - a set of mechanics that make it work. Using that procedure a trainer can alter the presentation as best suits the needs of each dog.

What brought all of this up were some questions that came my way, and the way they were asked. People adding a third bumper, or using birds (very limiting in most circumstances), involving water and water concepts (!), and a host of items that simply have no place in this casting-only drill.

That made me think that the three decent sources out there to learn about it may not be clear enough for people to understand. The numbers of this poll are bearing that out. Here are the numbers as of today.

WBB Poll Results


(5 forums polled)
1. I don't know how to run the drill
2. I know how to run it, but only at a Basic level
3. I know how to run it, at a Basic level, and how to advance it, except not to an Advanced level
4. I know it all!
Responses:
1. 81
2. 50
3. 37
4. 23

Frankly, I think the more interesting numbers are for response #4.

Evan
 
#29 ·
Without the very clear explanation of the drill I got in another thread a couple of years ago, I wouldn't have a clue how to run it (wish I could remember when and what thead it was). But...the description was so good and the explanation so clear that I really believe that I (or should I say "we") have it right. It's a terrific drill IMHO, and I'm confident that it's one of the drills that has helped me to take my Sadie to a much higher level than I ever could have without it.

Please don't misunderstand...I'm not pretending to be an expert here, and it's the help, the knowledge and the experience of people like Evan (and others in RTF, too) who have taught me how to train. The result is that my Sadie is an amazing dog...a pleasure to hunt with, a joy to be with and who continues to amaze me with what she can learn and do. The "Walking Baseball" drill is only a part of it, but it's proven to be a big part.
 
#30 ·
Could someone for the love of Pete just give a basic explanation of what walking baseball is? Is it like regular baseball in any way? Just a brief explanation would be great.

tt
 
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#31 ·
Frankly this drill has become a "time out" for me and my dog. I too, could not fathom it just from reading it. But I have had my partner/mentor help me with it so many times now that I really cant screw it up. It is such fun for the dog and for me, just because there is no electricity involved. When we get into a jam with harder stuff, we can go do this and still enforce the basic rules, and have fun. I am not convinced it is a drill that leads to higher learning, but I sure like it for what it is!
 
#32 ·
I'll tell you what about the number of responses for #4. First of all, the #3 response would leave anyone that does a pretty good job with the drill a little deflated. There is no continuity between the first three and the last choice. In my opinion, the last one came across as "flippy". To some extent, it tends to bring out the mischievous nature in people. I suggest the volume of responses in 4 do not suggest a bunch of "know it alls", but more of a whimsical "I can't take this quite as seriously as maybe it was intended" attitude.

Soooo.......generating polls requires thought in how the readers are going to react to the questions. Results can easily be skewed by creating unintended perceptions. "I know it all" was not so much an expression of skill level, but more of a reaction to the lack of a serious choice.

Now I got out my April/May 2005 Retriever Journal and re-read the drill. Maybe I should use larger orange more often (and I did this afternoon). The leaves on the short grass made it absolutely easier with the 3" bumpers. However, after taking several dogs through walking baseball, it is not a mystery.

There is at least one vote in the #4 category that was a "knee jerk" reaction to "I know it all." It is so much easier to vote that way when you are anonymous. Or am I all alone with this opinion?

So.......tell me what I need to know.......to know it all.

Mischievous regards, Jim
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
KwickLabs said:
So.......tell me what I need to know.......to know it all.

Mischievous regards, Jim
Click to expand...
Jim,

I confess "I know it all" was a bit flippy!
Image


But not completely. This could have been about anything from T drills to Tune-ups's, and there would simply be some respondants who would express that they "arrived long ago, and have no more need to learn". That has always been so, and it's a study in human nature.

The opinions I'm looking for descend from open minds. Even if you have used this, or any other drill, for years, you may find there is yet more to it than one might have previously supposed.

As you've noted, you have experience with the drill and it's scope of practice. Having that experience you now see that it isn't voodoo. It's just a little tricky to conceptualize for the beginner. Once you understand its fundamentals, you can begin to take advantage of its almost limitless flexibility. What a nice attribute for a useful drill to have that a trainer can do alone!
Image


To know it all about WBB is merely to understand its fundamental processes, and be willing to expand its use with an open mind. Often, the emails I get only appear to have the second component. It's a start, though!

Evan
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
MRGD said:
Could someone for the love of Pete just give a basic explanation of what walking baseball is? Is it like regular baseball in any way? Just a brief explanation would be great.

tt
Click to expand...
Did you read Chris's post? I thought he did about as much as one can with a forum post to describe this Casting-only drill. It's initially for dogs just out of T work, but can be a lifetime maintenance drill, if a person will expand their imagination in using it.

Evan
 
#35 ·
Could SOMEBODY please post a description of this drill????? or even send a p.m.....anything. I can't pretend to understand the drill if someone doesn't give a description. I am hoping I don't have to run out and buy one single copy of the RJ just to learn how its done.

Anyone....anyone.
 
Discussion starter · #36 · (Edited)
Debbie,

There isn't room in a forum post for complete instructions for performing this drill. Its abstract nature makes the description wordy out of necessity. However, here is a description of what it is by its nature and pracitce.

Walking Baseball is a Casting-only drill. That means that the dog isn't sent on a line at any time during the drill. Each time the dog is left in a front sit in preparation for a pre-planned cast. But now the description becomes more abstract.

It requires a field that is open and flat enough to allow the trainer to see both the dog and bumpers at all times. To do otherwise risks putting the dog in a position to be out of sight, or to attempt to cast him to bumpers you cannot be sure are where you're casting him. Moderate terrain features that don't impede this visibility, like ditches or strips of cover can actually help to elevate the dog's standards, once he has a good basic skill level.

Along with the appropriate field (and this type of field is easy to find nearly anywhere), you'll need two large (3") orange bumpers. Not white, or black, or any combination. It matters.

You'll walk a course that you determine and engineer in each session to place the dog so you can perform any cast, or combination of casts, that you desire. Back's, Over's, Come-in's, any angle, and so on, can be focused or combined as the dog has need.

What needs to be followed to make the drill perform as it should is a pattern of dynamics. While the route and cast selection are fluid, the fundamental mechanics are constant.

Does that help at all?

Evan
 
#38 · (Edited)
Thanks Evan. Here is a question...are you tossing the bumpers from your side, or are you getting the dog to sit while you place them further out into the field and then coming back to send dog?

Why do we use orange bumpers?
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
Debbie H said:
Thanks Evan. Here is a question...are you tossing the bumpers from your side, or are you getting the dog to sit while you place them further out into the field and then coming back to send dog?

Why do we use orange bumpers?
Click to expand...
Now we're getting into the long-winded part! But I'll try to be brief.

When you place each bumper you're only tossing it a few feet. Let me work up a diagram or two and post them up. That will help to make this clearer.

We use orange for reasons that will become clearer when you see how the drill is run. We can see 3" orange bumpers from quite a distance, but because dogs don't tend to see orange as well as stark colors and shades, like white or black, they must rely on taking the correct cast to get them there, instead of just running to a visible destination.

In addition, the bumper designated as the "secondary bumper" is made a little easier to get past by not being a start color or shade. The dog's memory of its placement is usually all the suction needed to strengthen the cast given and his commitment to carrying it. You'll see!

Evan
 
#40 ·
If you've ever done advanced three-handed casting with two bumpers, the mechanics of walking baseball are similar..........with three exceptions 1) the bumpers are big/orange, 2) home plate and the pitcher's mound are dynamically fluid (continually changing) and 3) the casts are generally much longer while transitioning to literal.
 
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