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Kind of lost. Feel like I’m going SO slow.

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Itchintogo

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have a 6month old pup, and I’m following Bill Hillmann’s video. With his videos and the recommendation to train(retrieving) 2-3 times a week. I’m still just doing sit command and single retrieves, water-land. I did join a club, but I’m looking for some other advice as to what to start mixing in?

I should decide on a collar in the next couple weeks and start CC. Can I start making marks harder? (Taller grass, cover, etc.) lining drills? Doubles? Or do I just keep running singles? Run singles, but make them harder? I feel like I’m so confused, I don’t even know what to ask. He has tons of desire, and running wide open 60-80yd marks right now.

Thank so much, sorry if it sounds confusing, but that’s how lost I am.
 
#2 ·
Itchintogo said:
I have a 6month old pup, and I’m following Bill Hillmann’s video. With his videos and the recommendation to train(retrieving) 2-3 times a week. I’m still just doing sit command and single retrieves, water-land. I did join a club, but I’m looking for some other advice as to what to start mixing in?

I should decide on a collar in the next couple weeks and start CC. Can I start making marks harder? (Taller grass, cover, etc.) lining drills? Doubles? Or do I just keep running singles? Run singles, but make them harder? I feel like I’m so confused, I don’t even know what to ask. He has tons of desire, and running wide open 60-80yd marks right now.

Thank so much, sorry if it sounds confusing, but that’s how lost I am.
Click to expand...
6 months old with tons of desire and only doing singles is not really following Hillmann. My 16 week old puppy is doing the following as examples of what you can be doing.
Simple short Doubles, Multiple short sight blinds, learning going to Homeplate with "kennel" as Bill calls it, collar conditioning to sit and here, steady, steady, steady(sit focusing on mark with long waits), walking at heel, deliver to front and side sit, Fetch, hold and drop, intro to birds (dead and alive), use nose in heavy cover, short stand alones, short walk back blinds, simple overs and back (10'), lots of long exploring walks, travel to trials, town etc., stake out. Today starting single point blinds with white stake. These are all things you can you find in Hillmann DVD or YouTube. All of this is quite short since stretching out for distance is VERY easy once you have sound mechanics. I haven't done any marks beyond about 40 yards. All of this is alone-just me and pup. I will do some retrieving every day if I have time. By 6 months there could be much more but first get all of these things going.
 
#3 ·
I think everyone that has ever trained a dog has felt the same way.
You do need a collar IMO. Get a good one, Garmin or Dogtra.

If your pup has lots of drive and desire and is doing well on simple singles you can start adding other factors in. Ease into it, running square through cover or into water, short distance and gradually increase angles, distance, cover changes, etc. As marks get tougher don't be quick to help, let your pup figure them out when he doesn't find them right away. Keep him successful but at the same time keep challenging him.

Simple doubles are great as well. I started my current pup on doubles very early, probably 4 months old. I would throw a bumper from the line into low cover then throw one from a winger at 50-100yds, plenty of separation between the two. He caught on very quickly and would hurry back from the long mark and line up for the short bird or get it without being sent, either way was OK at that age.

With a six month old pup you can train more than 2-3 times a week. Probably 5 or 6, watch the heat and keep it fun of course.

Take a few minutes after training to write notes, the voice to text feature on your phone is great for this. It always seams like progress is slow until you look back at where your pup was just a week or two before.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Thanks so much for the replies! I should of added, he is very eager to retrieve now, but he definitely wasn’t at 2-4.5 months. Plus we had a terrible late winter and he wanted no part of retrieving outside. It really set me back. As his desire flipped a switch a month ago his desire is thru the roof now, but my thought has been if I work slower, the less likely I am to mess him up.

Sounds like I need to get a collar ASAP and continue farther on with the video.

I was getting confused watching the video( I’m a long way in, and it’s still single retrieves, sit.) If I’m confused, I know the pup will be.
 
#5 ·
Hillman's videos are s--l--o--w enough that you can almost train with them in real-time, but your dog should probably be farther along (weather excepted).

Where are you located? You should find a mentor, training group, pro, whatever. Books and videos cannot teach you to read dogs, which is what needs to be done with yours right now. This is a critical, once-in-his-lifetime period. Depending on the dog, you might be right on schedule. He might be ready for CC, FF, etc, maybe not.
 
#6 ·
RetrieversONLINE said:
6 months old with tons of desire and only doing singles is not really following Hillmann. My 16 week old puppy is doing the following as examples of what you can be doing.
Simple short Doubles, Multiple short sight blinds, learning going to Homeplate with "kennel" as Bill calls it, collar conditioning to sit and here, steady, steady, steady(sit focusing on mark with long waits), walking at heel, deliver to front and side sit, Fetch, hold and drop, intro to birds (dead and alive), use nose in heavy cover, short stand alones, short walk back blinds, simple overs and back (10'), lots of long exploring walks, travel to trials, town etc., stake out. Today starting single point blinds with white stake. These are all things you can you find in Hillmann DVD or YouTube. All of this is quite short since stretching out for distance is VERY easy once you have sound mechanics. I haven't done any marks beyond about 40 yards. All of this is alone-just me and pup. I will do some retrieving every day if I have time. By 6 months there could be much more but first get all of these things going.
Click to expand...
Certainly an interesting approach albeit one not subscribed to by many successful trainers. You have the great advantage, experience. The OP has none and his caution is well founded because a serious mistake now could have lasting consequences. Good habits are easier to build than bad habits are to break.
 
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#7 ·
EdA said:
Certainly an interesting approach albeit one not subscribed to by many successful trainers. You have the great advantage, experience. The OP has none and his caution is well founded because a serious mistake now could have lasting consequences. Good habits are easier to build than bad habits are to break.
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Hi Ed
These things are all well documented in Hillmann's many videos. It is all done in a fun way so that the pup hardly knows he is being taught so much. I have done this with 5-6 dogs now and I know lots who have successfully used this for their first pup. It is actually much safer than conventional puppy training because so many people end up with a wild Indian at 6-10 months and then they have to put on way too much pressure or they don't know how to clean up all the antics.
However, you are absolutely right. Virtually no well-known and successful field trial trainer does this stuff. I am on record in several published articles in predicting that would be the case many years ago when this stuff first became available. Very few young dog trainers or even experienced Amateurs are going to change what they have been doing for years. I know of no established FT Pro who has even bothered to study this, let alone tried this methodology. The whole basis of the approach is building good habits. A lot of conventional puppy training actually builds a ton of bad habits such as breaking and jumping around at the line and generally being lousy at obedience. I have never enjoyed puppy training so much and that is after as many years training as you. BTW, I didn't read the OP as being cautious as much as not knowing what to do!
 
#8 · (Edited)
RetrieversONLINE said:
Hi Ed
These things are all well documented in Hillmann's many videos. It is all done in a fun way so that the pup hardly knows he is being taught so much. I have done this with 5-6 dogs now and I know lots who have successfully used this for their first pup. It is actually much safer than conventional puppy training because so many people end up with a wild Indian at 6-10 months and then they have to put on way too much pressure or they don't know how to clean up all the antics.
However, you are absolutely right. Virtually no well-known and successful field trial trainer does this stuff. I am on record in several published articles in predicting that would be the case many years ago when this stuff first became available. Very few young dog trainers or even experienced Amateurs are going to change what they have been doing for years. I know of no established FT Pro who has even bothered to study this, let alone tried this methodology. The whole basis of the approach is building good habits. A lot of conventional puppy training actually builds a ton of bad habits such as breaking and jumping around at the line and generally being lousy at obedience. I have never enjoyed puppy training so much and that is after as many years training as you. BTW, I didn't read the OP as being cautious as much as not knowing what to do!
Click to expand...
I would hope that you would be aware of the respect I have for you and your accomplishments. Maybe I am just too old to change and I am. My read from the OP was confusion and lacking the knowledge to move on into uncertainty. My message of caution has not changed. You and I realize that if this dog doesn’t pan out move to the next one but people new to this do not have that luxury. And for what it is worth I am not a Hillman aficionado.
Ontario wife regards! 😀
 
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#10 ·
Itchintogo said:
If I’m confused, I know the pup will be.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right.
We train our dogs to stop, go, return, change direction, etc in response to various commands, whistles and cues. In doing so we are also training our pup to focus on our every move, sound and quirk. If you are nervous, confused or out of sorts in some way your dog will know it because he is trained to focus on you. A good handler must always be conscious of this.
You can learn a lot watching other handlers with their dogs. Experienced handlers move in very purposeful ways and are able to communicate things to their dogs in lots of little ways.
 
#11 ·
First time training? Have you watched the whole video multiple times (I assume you're following Training a Retriever Puppy)? I found myself feeling a little lost/behind and just rewatched when I did. Try not to feel behind - it doesn't do you any good. Just develop where you want to go and make progress towards that, it's of no use to compare to other dogs (unless you're testing). I felt like that when I ran into someone I knew - his pup and mine were both about 6 months old. He had every morning to train and I watched his dog and felt really down for awhile. I went back, watched and got rid of the feeling way behind emotions.

I'm on my second lab, first one I followed 10 Minute Retriever, no ecollar and this one with Hillmann and ecollar. Hunting/house dog no tests. I also got the Heeling dvd. This dog is/will be much better. I don't recall Hillman saying 2-3 times a week, you can certainly train more than that - everyday if you have time.
 
#12 ·
Fifty, Then you need to watch again including the credits and written info on the screen at end of dvd. I loaned my copy to my son or I would point out where he says 2-3 times.
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
I ended up watching farther into the videos and I don’t feel as bad about being behind. He says over and over don’t get hung up on the age. I am behind, But I don’t feel it’s terrible. I didn’t get the dvds until a month after I got him, so he was 3m old. He had low drive retrieving, and I didn’t know how EXCITED I needed to act about retrieving until I joined a club at about 4.5 months. So by the time he got desire he was 4.5m and the videos are pups starting at 2m or so.

I think he’ll still be ok. He has tons of desire now, he is getting extremely good at sit in all different scenarios, he doesn’t seem to struggle with anything new.

My biggest thing is getting a collar ASAP!!

I did train a pup before, but that was 20yrs ago. Great duck dog, no testing.

I will say I love the Hillman videos, and will continue on with his next vids when he’s ready.
 
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