Can one incorporate this safely in ht? Would you ever use this in a Senior level?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Walk-up flyers in hunt tests?
maliretriever
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So TigerLilly strikes again! Just because I always embarrass you with your radical Liberal Posts on the Political Part of RTF, you should not carry your rantings into other posts! I know these folks can and will judge my posts without babble coming from you.....so go back to political attacks and leave us alone!
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You heard correctly, back when I ran this test, they did use flyers in that test! My Golden that ran that test passed away two weeks ago...! He was a great duck dog and pretty good at flushing pheasant...
I understand..
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My understanding as to the initial roots of HRC tests, they did a bunch of different hunting items-scenarios that would be strictly illegal today. Including GASP (FLYERS IN STARTED). The rule-book was indeed written for a reason 
.
Today if such scenarios were put up; first the hunt test committee would flag them, then the Rep. then the contestants. Heck everyone would be in Conduct Meetings all afternoon and never run a dog. The HRC rulebook is the most clearly defined book in terms of what you CANNOT do (distance requirements, separation, cover-changes etc). There were reasons, it had to be. Southern boys-Hunters were very inventive, when initially creating the venue. Sounds like those first tests were a Kick, before everything was boggled down with rules LOL.
.Today if such scenarios were put up; first the hunt test committee would flag them, then the Rep. then the contestants. Heck everyone would be in Conduct Meetings all afternoon and never run a dog. The HRC rulebook is the most clearly defined book in terms of what you CANNOT do (distance requirements, separation, cover-changes etc). There were reasons, it had to be. Southern boys-Hunters were very inventive, when initially creating the venue. Sounds like those first tests were a Kick, before everything was boggled down with rules LOL
.My understanding as to the initial roots of HRC tests, they did a bunch of different hunting items-scenarios that would be strictly illegal today. Including GASP (FLYERS IN STARTED). The rule-book was indeed written for a reason
Today if such scenarios were put up; first the hunt test committee would flag them, then the Rep. then the contestants. Heck everyone would be in Conduct Meetings all afternoon and never run a dog. The HRC rulebook is the most clearly defined book in terms of what you CANNOT do (distance requirements, separation, cover-changes etc). There were reasons, it had to be. Southern boys-Hunters were very inventive, when initially creating the venue. Sounds like those first tests were a Kick, before everything was boggled down with rules LOL
I'm not GASPING at a flyer in Started...… I am pointing out that as far back as I can remember (ran first started test somewhere around 2000 or so) a Started dog was not required to be steady.. They were required run at the line on a leash, or, held by hand under a collar.. (You could run the dog without restraint if you wanted, but if the dog breaks,, you fail)
Swampcollie stated many dogs BROKE!
He also stated handlers were instructed by judges to drop leash at some point and have dog unrestrained. Thus requiring the dog to be steady... All levels in HRC rules state a BREAK is an automatic failer.. (Note I did not say a CONTROLLED break)… I would be all for flyers in HRC tests at all levels..
I only have HRC rule books starting around the year 2000.. I will concede I do not know what the requirements were before then.. I concede the point..
At the point in time, I started running HRC, Swamps test would be Illegal..
Like I said, I am surprised a Hunt committee approved it..
I am surprised handlers didn't call the judges on it..
Mike Baker
To Demean myself!!!!
GD it Gooser! The OP asked about a friggin SENIOR test!! I wouuld think you would have learned to read by now..!!
And dang it! To top it off his focus was on SAFTY (is safty ty or tey)
We wasn't asked to bash Venues!!
Way to Hyjack a perfectly GREAT thread!!
self mutilation regards:
Gooser….er I mean Mike Baker
GD it Gooser! The OP asked about a friggin SENIOR test!! I wouuld think you would have learned to read by now..!!
And dang it! To top it off his focus was on SAFTY (is safty ty or tey)
We wasn't asked to bash Venues!!
Way to Hyjack a perfectly GREAT thread!!
self mutilation regards:
Gooser….er I mean Mike Baker
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There would be no "conduct meeting", whatever that is.My understanding as to the initial roots of HRC tests, they did a bunch of different hunting items-scenarios that would be strictly illegal today. Including GASP (FLYERS IN STARTED). The rule-book was indeed written for a reason
Today if such scenarios were put up; first the hunt test committee would flag them, then the Rep. then the contestants. Heck everyone would be in Conduct Meetings all afternoon and never run a dog. The HRC rulebook is the most clearly defined book in terms of what you CANNOT do (distance requirements, separation, cover-changes etc). There were reasons, it had to be. Southern boys-Hunters were very inventive, when initially creating the venue. Sounds like those first tests were a Kick, before everything was boggled down with rules LOL
Live birds are specifically prohibited in HRC Started tests. Page 37, second paragraph. -Paul
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No comment on the judges, but one of them was in the kitchen so I made her come in here and watch. Brings back a lot of memories.
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Yes, it can be done safely.
No, it's a bad idea. It would be difficult to make it the "surprise" bird. It's also a bigger test of steadiness than is necessary for Senior.
A better use of the flyer in a senior walk-up double would be to make it the longer of the 2 as the go bird. -Paul
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why not???? One of my all time favorite memories of Hunt Test days! 🤣🐾🐾🤣
I agree! Longer go bird as flyer..
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Mike, I recall the same detail you provided above. We were allowed to bring the dog to the line on lead, and could hold the collars! I do not recall saying we had to drop the lead and then heal to the line? Regardless, that is not what we were required to do. When I said 'break' my recollection was that many at the line, took off the lead and then held the collar until the pups settled at the line. When the flyer was released and shot, many of the pups went a bit crazy...many wanted to go get it, other were scarred and just wanted to get away. I don't recall many actually 'breaking' away, but it was difficult to settle the pups for the mark. Many failed as the pups had no idea where the mark was...
Yes, many of us challenged the judges during and after the test, but to know avail!
Swamp
I am only responding because you mention me in your last post..
The pupose of a walk-up is to test STEADYNESS! STARTED dogs are not required to be steady. You restrain the dog with a leash, or bt holding them by a collar for their MARKING tests.. If you read the rules that describe the required elements of a STARTED Test,,a Walk-up isn't one of them,,, because,,, the dogs arnt required to be STEADY YET!!
Paul Young also stated another RULE of the program, that LIVE BIRDS are not allowed in STARTED.. Another reason, your test was illegal..
Your HRC STARTED test was Illegal for HRC tests,,for many reasons.. An HRC hunt committee wouldn't have approved the test.. Thats all I am saying.. ANND in addition, a STARTED test in HRC isnt what the OP asked about.. He specifically asked about SENIOR AKC..
Have a good day Swamp.. I wont respond any further.. I don't know how to be more clear..
I am only responding because you mention me in your last post..
The pupose of a walk-up is to test STEADYNESS! STARTED dogs are not required to be steady. You restrain the dog with a leash, or bt holding them by a collar for their MARKING tests.. If you read the rules that describe the required elements of a STARTED Test,,a Walk-up isn't one of them,,, because,,, the dogs arnt required to be STEADY YET!!
Paul Young also stated another RULE of the program, that LIVE BIRDS are not allowed in STARTED.. Another reason, your test was illegal..
Your HRC STARTED test was Illegal for HRC tests,,for many reasons.. An HRC hunt committee wouldn't have approved the test.. Thats all I am saying.. ANND in addition, a STARTED test in HRC isnt what the OP asked about.. He specifically asked about SENIOR AKC..
Have a good day Swamp.. I wont respond any further.. I don't know how to be more clear..
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Starting this Saturday the rules say I can do three walk up flyers a day on pheasants. Could be more if there are some no birds.
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I agree with your perspective.My understanding as to the initial roots of HRC tests, they did a bunch of different hunting items-scenarios that would be strictly illegal today. Including GASP (FLYERS IN STARTED). The rule-book was indeed written for a reason
Today if such scenarios were put up; first the hunt test committee would flag them, then the Rep. then the contestants. Heck everyone would be in Conduct Meetings all afternoon and never run a dog. The HRC rulebook is the most clearly defined book in terms of what you CANNOT do (distance requirements, separation, cover-changes etc). There were reasons, it had to be. Southern boys-Hunters were very inventive, when initially creating the venue. Sounds like those first tests were a Kick, before everything was boggled down with rules LOL
I am glad someone here considers the 'possibility' of what I experienced. It doesn't matter to me if others accept it or not.
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Out with Rules set by a body or committee where potentially any one with a keyboard can scrutinise or quote all manner of rules and looks good on print . ..
Just to get a handle on 'Walk up Flyers' .. (From this side of the pond) Thanks for your consideration.
..
Is it , as I understand it . Dog or dogs in pairs ,or even more ..walking to heel Non slip and a bird is released and shot ,and the Dog or all dogs have to be steady to that Shot and fall ,and be cast on command ..Non Slip ?
If it is ,then that would be normal Hunting situation in any shooting field with a Labrador retriever and a gun ,walk up with flyers(birds) ?
Just to get a handle on 'Walk up Flyers' .. (From this side of the pond) Thanks for your consideration.
..
Is it , as I understand it . Dog or dogs in pairs ,or even more ..walking to heel Non slip and a bird is released and shot ,and the Dog or all dogs have to be steady to that Shot and fall ,and be cast on command ..Non Slip ?
If it is ,then that would be normal Hunting situation in any shooting field with a Labrador retriever and a gun ,walk up with flyers(birds) ?
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I would say yes. My dog would be quartering the field rather than at heel. Sitting at flush and or shot is the important part.
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I have spaniels that do this . The Retrievers walk at heel.
For flyers that land 100 yards away from the line I am walking ,those that are quartering are at a disadvantage stopping to shot from that quartering ,than the one at heel looking forward or arc of the gun? ..Each to their own. Flushing and retrieving.
...
Back to 'Walk up Flyers'.
Are the birds released from the line ,or further afield ? ..If released from the line then that would be realistically flushed by the walking line and shot within the range of the sporting gun being used . If released from further afield and shot , say 100 yards plus , in front of the walking line ,then that is something else ..?
(Outwith any rules in a competition) ..Just saying in Real life .
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