I have a 2 year old male Topbrass golden sired by Hawk. He has his JH and WC. He is my seventh dog over 40 years. I ran him in senior hunt tests last fall and had trouble with handling him in the water at tests. We have completed pattern blinds on water and continued to practice them. He hesitates on left and right overs at times. He goes back relatively well. He stops on the whistle. I mainly follow Mike Lardy's program but have used a lot of other sources over the years. He is a lot more interested in training with birds then bumpers. He has been through the land training and we continue to review all the training on land. I will put him back in the water as soon as it warms up a little. He is a upland and waterfowl hunter. I enter AKC hunt tests over the years to make sure I have a decently trained hunting companion. Any suggestions, tips are appreciated.
Transitioning to Water
jjbuckley
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I have a 2 year old male Topbrass golden sired by Hawk. He has his JH and WC. He is my seventh dog over 40 years. I ran him in senior hunt tests last fall and had trouble with handling him in the water at tests. We have completed pattern blinds on water and continued to practice them. He hesitates on left and right overs at times. He goes back relatively well. He stops on the whistle. I mainly follow Mike Lardy's program but have used a lot of other sources over the years. He is a lot more interested in training with birds then bumpers. He has been through the land training and we continue to review all the training on land. I will put him back in the water as soon as it warms up a little. He is a upland and waterfowl hunter. I enter AKC hunt tests over the years to make sure I have a decently trained hunting companion. Any suggestions, tips are appreciated.
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Do water forcing and swim-by again - thoroughly
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Merely a thought ...nothing else ! Do you stop the dog with a hand raised before the dog treads water ?
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Revisiting swim by is good for any dog. Keep it fun, no pressure, simplify if necessary and finish with a few fun water retrieves.
Should be easy with the superior intelligence of your Golden.
Should be easy with the superior intelligence of your Golden.
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I would be more interested in what you have done in the way of teaching your dog to handle
after completing swim-by. Running blinds is a process called transition. Pattern blinds are
just one step in the process. The pattern blind focus is to simply "go" because they know where.
When you give a cast, the dog will only respond correctly when it is a condition response (taught).
What have you done in the way of precise practice that would present a clear picture for how the
dog is supposed to respond to any given cast?
For example, in the following setups, the dog is lined and then handled to various positions. The
dog knows where each target is, but will be asked to take many different casts determined by you.
Properly focused practice produces conditioned responses....handling. Dog learns to stop and "ask"
for "what's next".
land (this is not taught in one day)
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water
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later
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after completing swim-by. Running blinds is a process called transition. Pattern blinds are
just one step in the process. The pattern blind focus is to simply "go" because they know where.
When you give a cast, the dog will only respond correctly when it is a condition response (taught).
What have you done in the way of precise practice that would present a clear picture for how the
dog is supposed to respond to any given cast?
For example, in the following setups, the dog is lined and then handled to various positions. The
dog knows where each target is, but will be asked to take many different casts determined by you.
Properly focused practice produces conditioned responses....handling. Dog learns to stop and "ask"
for "what's next".
land (this is not taught in one day)
water
later
Agree with repeating swim by. I review it every spring. But in cold blinds on more open water I think a dog can lose perspective in relation to the handler since it takes so much longer to pivot once given the cast. I suggest review cheating singles and channel blinds. With the channels, it helps give the dog a better perspective of what cast to take from the handler, since the shore is right there on both sides. Makes it a very black/white situation. Can be hard to find channels, so working on a blind that parallels a shore can be helpful too.
I just think when they are in the middle of a big round piece of water, they can get directional challenged.
Tune up drills in water can be helpful too.
I just think when they are in the middle of a big round piece of water, they can get directional challenged.
Tune up drills in water can be helpful too.
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That would be a signal for a dog trained by popular methods over here to turn and swim in that direction. -Paul
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Nice post, Jim! Really good photos and diagrams. Excellent way to transition to cold water blinds, IMO. -Paul
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For water casting in transition, I start with water walking baseball.
and each cast is from a new origin to a new destination.
Each cast is a long success from the dog's perspective.
I also like the drill because the trainer can focus on any cast pup is having problems with,
such as casting into the wind.
I think it also helps improve memory in youngsters.
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Good stuff Jim!
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Robt., the whistle command for sit - or for the dog to do a 360 turn and tread water - makes the upraised arm y'all are known to use unnecessary. As Paul noted, different connotation over here - except for training HPRs, as NAVHDA has the upraised arm as a visual cue to go along with a stop whistle, but it's really only done on land since most HPRs (versatile breeds) are never trained to handle in water.
You've probably seen in US retriever training videos that the handler upon blowing the sit or stop whistle assumes a "prayer position" with arms into your side and hands pointing to heaven just below your chin. The dog after making that 360 sits/treads water facing you, the handler, and in turn, you the handler, silently count a-thousand-one, thousand-two, thousand-three before giving the cast you want the dog to take when you extend the appropriate arm (and angle) (and decibel level or NOT) (and "Permission back" or NOT), ad infinitum with the precision casts we deploy, er, full stop!
MG
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Yup! which is why I was asking ?
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Does this dog have eyes in the back of its head? Perhaps an immigrant of alien status?
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I think he meant 180 , but got carried away with the 'Spin' . ;-)Does this dog have eyes in the back of its head? Perhaps an immigrant of alien status?
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probably owns a spaniel. hahahaha!I think he meant 180 , but got carried away with the 'Spin' . ;-)
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I'm reading that the dog doesn't change directions in the water. I don't see how pattern blinds, swim-by or channel blinds are going to help with this.
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Yeah, carried away by the NBA's 360 spin to the hole (abyss) with coronavirus taking down their season. March Madness (albeit not at Murrayfield) going bye-bye, too. Pretty soon all we'll have left of 'Merican sports will be retriever FTs and HTs!I think he meant 180 , but got carried away with the 'Spin' . ;-)
And tobi's right, it was illegal aliens (unregistered chins or Tibetan spaniels) that got me carried away on the spin that went 180 degrees too far!
MG
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me neither , but what do I know ? ..not much , unless we seen the dog .....and the handler when it does it ?
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Well now... at least we have a nickname for you MG... 'The Spin Doctor'! LMAO
Sorry to the OP for sidetracking your thread.
Thanks, Darrin for the info. I will go over this again.
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