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Please pick all that apply. Post encouraged.

  • OFA Hips

    Votes: 130 98%
  • OFA Elbows

    Votes: 103 78%
  • Penn Hip

    Votes: 17 13%
  • Cerf

    Votes: 127 96%
  • PRA

    Votes: 21 16%
  • Heart

    Votes: 23 17%
  • CNM

    Votes: 90 68%
  • EIC

    Votes: 39 30%
  • Any that I have forgotten. Please add in a post.

    Votes: 4 3%
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MRGD

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Well with the EIC thread it got me to thinking, which is dangerous I know. What test do you do if you are a breeder? If you are a dog purchaser, what test do you require before buying a pup?

Are all these tests good? Are they over the top? Thoughts?

tt
 
How about these questions
Which of the National Champions would have passed each of these tests?
Which of us would gladly disregard each of these tests in order to have a healthy top performing 100 point partner on the line?

Erik Gawthorpe
 
Which of the National Champions would have passed each of these tests? Which of us would gladly disregard each of these tests in order to have a healthy top performing 100 point partner on the line? Erik Gawthorpe
Most people don't have the luxury of buying a "healthy top performing 100 point partner". Most of us start off with a puppy or, in some cases, many puppies. We do everything we can to improve the odds of achieving a "healthy top performing 100 point partner" by selecting from the offspring of top performers, proven producers and those with exceptional pedigrees. The last thing we want to do is invest considerable time and resources into a dog to make him a winner and then find out at 5-6 years of age that he is blind from PRA or has broken down due to hip or elbow dysplasia.

Should someone buy a EIC or CNM carrier? It depends. If all anyone is interested in is the competition and winning, why not as long as they are not "affected"? If you want to breed your "healthy top performing 100 point partner" at some future date, then you may want to improve your odds of breeding popularity and start with a clean pup. Even the carriers can be bred if you change your mind later because we now have the ability to make good breeding decisions by testing to identify the carriers and avoid affected pups.

I can only think of a couple of individuals that might be capable of starting out with "a healthy top performing 100 point partner", but most of us have to settle for improving the odds during puppy selection.
 
It is always a crap shoot...Structural issues are a biggy for me since I have owned 2 dogs with those issues (hips and shoulders) and they could do nothing but be couch potatoes.

The CERF is so subjective that it really depends on the findings and the interpretation by a trusted opthalmologist...

CNM and EIC carriers probably would not be a problem since I never buy a dog with the intention of breeding. If they are immensely successful, we now (or soon) will have the tools to avoid producing afflicted animals.
 
Hey Ken:
I agree with your comments. Since we know there are no perfect animals out there, which one of these tests are you going to disregard or minimize?

What is acceptable, Hips at Fair, EIC Marker, Spot on the chest? Could you be disregarding a future great champion because one of these tests, that has no relavance to their performance, has excluded them from your selection process?

Another question:
What about the frozen semen from dogs no longer alive. How are we going to test those dogs?

I think the answer is personal and will vary depending on the goals of the individual.
 
I don't mind any carriers of anything as long as they are not expressing the bad stuff and are selectively bred to prevent the bad stuff from being expressed. White wouldn't bother me on a wonderful breeding... Hips at fair are hard to swallow, but are perfectly fine in reality.
 
If all anyone is interested in is the competition and winning, why not as long as they are not "affected"? Even the carriers can be bred if you change your mind later because we now have the ability to make good breeding decisions by testing to identify the carriers and avoid affected pups.
I agree with this. As long as they are not affected, why not go for it? I like to make sure one parent is clear.
 
I find it interesting that 75% of the people that responded say they require elbows and yet only 37,000 Labradors have been evaluated for ED through 2006. There are about 300,000 labs registered with AKC annually and only 37,000 have EVER been tested. Assuming that since 1974 there have been a average of 150,000 labs registered with AKC a total of 4.5 MILLION labs would have been registered in this same time period which means that a total of .008% of the registered dogs have ever been tested making the 12 or so percent of the 37000 tested dogs found to be dysplastic to be statistically insignificant. Of this number 88% were normal and only 0.6% had grade 3 dysplasia (the worst) and 11.2% had very mild grade 1. I am sure I will get the comments about how terrible it is to have a dog with ED, and I am sure it is. My point, however, is that ONLY 37.000 labs have ever been tested and you have to wonder how many of those were tested because they showed signs, thus elevating the percentage of dogs evaluated that have dysplasia. I for one just do not believe that ED is that big of an issue with those who breed responsibly. I have no problem buying a dog without ofa elbows if I know neither parent has issues. I would also speculate that other birth defects occur at a much higher percentage than ED in labs.
Oddly enough, even though we hear all the time about how prevalent HD is in labs, only 12.2 % of the 185,781 labs tested for HD actually are dysplastic (again when the entire number of dog is evaluated I do not find this statistically significant either, but do test all of my dogs)
The end result is that it is not folks like most of us here on RTF that are perpetuating the problem, rather it is those who have not clue of how to breed or what dogs are suitable for a breeding program. They do not and will not test for anything because they have “the best dog” and Bubba down the street has: the best dog other than mine” so lets get them together.
EIC and CMN are good tool when selecting dog sto breed
 
I think your results are going to be skewed because some of your choices are breed specific...so you should have specified "Labs only" in your question.;)


it's a little like people putting an ad in the classifieds for a litter. Giving the impressive pedigree, sire, dam, health clearances, etc. and failing to mention what breed of puppies they are selling....all the time just expecting everyone to know they are referring to a lab.:confused::p Just an observation.
 
Could you be disregarding a future great champion because one of these tests, that has no relavance to their performance, has excluded them from your selection process?
Eric, where do you draw line? There are many steps in the selection process of picking your next pup. I used to teach sales classes for a large national corporation and we had a 10-step presentation. Inevitably one new salesman would ask, "What is the most important step?" "The step you are in." Each step builds on the one before it and prepares for the next step. When you are checking health clearances you have to select the pup with the best clearances from the available pups. There is no perfect answer here. I look at the total package (breeder, parents, pedigree, clearances, price and proximity) when I buy a pup. Sometimes I'll go through the whole process and decide to keep on looking.
 
Ken,

Different topic but if you would respond, I would appreciate it.

It was posted that SA passed their new animal ordinance...what was the result and how will it affect breeders like yourself who own more than a couple of breeding bitches?

Nancy
 
Of this number 88% were normal and only 0.6% had grade 3 dysplasia (the worst) and 11.2% had very mild grade 1.
My Lab's elbow prelims came back with Grade II ED. He had surgery but I never did the regular OFA elbows on him. In addition, there is that little checkbox on the form where you say not to post negative results. So, I wonder how many Labs are out there who do have ED but are not in the database for one reason or another.

For this reason, I would rather rely on the parents' and their ancestors' track record, especially for elbows.
 
Well we do all tests available when they go in to have their hips done.

With the discussion about breed specific problems, we have also heard that Labs aren't affected wth the heart problems like goldens. Well, after having 3 labs with a Grade I or worse heart murmur, we now check this on all ours as well. We may be the select few people that have seen this in our labs, but it is hard to believe with 2 of these dogs coming from a top producing sire that there aren't more out there. The thought also crossed our minds that some of the EIC/heat related problems that we are seeing in the breed, could be a cardio problem. Any thoughts???

Tim
 
At the time of posting 28 respondents which represented 37% say they require EIC test.

How can you require a test, that as far as I know, still doesn't exist?
I am assuming it will be available before I breed my next litter and I will have tested all of my dogs. If any are carriers, I would only breed to a stud that had tested clear.
 
I predominately here about bad hips, but not elbows. I really haven’t seen many lab breeders that OFA certify elbows (that’s just me though). Is it not as important as hip certification? I assume elbow dysplasia can cause lameness just like hip dysplasia…right?
 
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