RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

Which dog wins?

  • Dog A

    Votes: 60 44%
  • Dog B

    Votes: 75 56%
1 - 20 of 70 Posts

Gun_Dog2002

· Registered
Joined
·
8,909 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
Derby Test

Dog A - Barks and whines coming through the holding blinds, barks once on each bird thrown and then whines until sent.

Dog B - Silent as a church mouse, but has small hunts in the AOF for each bird.

Which dog gets 1st place?

/Paul

Image
 
I picked dog A, because in this particular test, he was the better marker and disturbed the least ground. BUT....if these same behaviors continue, he will eliminate himself soon enough by either breaking or missing the mark due to distractions. I know this for a fact:)
 
I don't like a noisy dog... it's just my personal preference.
 
dog B - the dog that had a small hunt stayed in the AOF showed good perseverence, which in my book is a plus....would rather hunt with this dog!;-)
 
I co judged the derby in a informal a couple of weeks ago and going into the last series there were 2 dogs in first place. In the last test dog A nailed it and dog B went behind a gun and had a small hunt. Dog A had terrible line manners all day, not so much noise but creeping way out in front, having to be reheeled and was really hard on the birds, these were partially frozen and you could still hear the bones cracking.

In the end that dog (A) did win and clearly marked better, but I don't see how he could run a liscend trial.

This was my first time judging, and it sure makes you realise how much the little things matter.

I guess I would pick dog A in this case as well. Although you'd like to give it to the dog that behaved himself at the line too.
________
Threesome tube
 
Derby Test

Dog A - Barks and whines coming through the holding blinds, barks once on each bird thrown and then whines until sent.

Dog B - Silent as a church mouse, but has small hunts in the AOF for each bird.

Which dog gets 1st place?

/Paul

Image
btw - which did you vote for?

Juil
 
I picked Dog A -- better marks -- and could only base it on this one scenario -- but if noise continued in other series, I would agree that dog would eliminate himself
 
Could be several holding blinds up to line in one series -- and is a Derby dog under judgement before it gets to line any way ????
 
Being ignorant of both trialing rules and convention, I "voted" when I had no real business doing so. Just can not stand a vocal retriever, unless it's yipping with joy when released or frustration when a cripple is beating it.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
I'll clarify, Dog A barked on the line at each bird thrown and whined. Personally i find vocalization to be an elimination factor. I'm a firm believer of the line manners instructions from page 30 of the FT rules...

24. When called to be tested, a dog should come tractably at heel and sit promptly at the point designated by his handler and remain quietly where placed until given further orders. Retrievers which bark or whine on line, in a blind or while retrieving, should be penalized. Loud and prolonged barking or whining is sufficient cause to justify elimination from the stake.
I am surprised at the equalness of the voting though. I think it clearly demonstrates an issue with FT mentality today. 1st, I believe that vocalness in a dogs is;
1. a hereditary trait controlled through training
2. one of the toughest issues to train through.

Many would contend that the best of the best is determined by success in competition, rightly so. Yet as long as people are willing to reward dogs through placements, focusing on one trait such as marking and ignoring other listed traits like vocalization I think we're actually hurting the breed. If judges would read and enforce the quoted portion of the book, those dogs would never get far enough to place, and people would eliminate that undesirable traits like this from the lines. Marking is of primary importance, not all important. Just my .02....

/Paul

ps. This did not come from any recent trial, but came from working with a young man who has a higher than a kite linebred dog that is known for this problem. This poor man is desperate for a solution to the noise and i think with time and control we can contain it. He's failed two junior tests, and I told him that frankly he should switch and run derby because this poll demonstrates, there are those who will ignore it if the dog pins the marks.
 
Derby dog rides to trial with owner in professionals truck - rides for 1 day sits for 2 days in truck because other than airing on lead there is no place for the dog to run off pent up energy.

Dog sits in holding blind while they run a loose dog down building higher than a kite - hits the line barking, barks both birds down & then pins the marks. Last time the dog barks in that stake - They are Derby dogs - if the problem is'nt corrected it will end there.

From the answers I've seen on this post I can see why most who run the Derby come out of their campaign p***** at the judging quality. If they haven't got enough pizzazz to want to go they are not going to make much of a HUNTING dog &/or AA dog. That's my experience!!!!
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Derby dog rides to trial with owner in professionals truck - rides for 1 day sits for 2 days in truck because other than airing on lead there is no place for the dog to run off pent up energy.

Dog sits in holding blind while they run a loose dog down building higher than a kite - hits the line barking, barks both birds down & then pins the marks. Last time the dog barks in that stake - They are Derby dogs - if the problem is'nt corrected it will end there.

From the answers I've seen on this post I can see why most who run the Derby come out of their campaign p***** at the judging quality. If they haven't got enough pizzazz to want to go they are not going to make much of a HUNTING dog &/or AA dog. That's my experience!!!!
I'm sorry Marvin, are you willing to share which dog you voted for? Am I reading this correctly that you believe it is acceptable for the dog to bark through the holding blinds and on the line with birds going down because the dog rode on the truck?

/Paul
 
Did both dogs find the birds yes, but in all actuality with dog A whining and barking there would not have been birds to shoot at if we were in an actual hunt. So Dog B Wins
 
Did both dogs find the birds yes, but in all actuality with dog A whining and barking there would not have been birds to shoot at if we were in an actual hunt. So Dog B Wins

yes - but these aren't hunting dogs..they're trial dogs...right? (being sarcastic here;-) )

Juli
 
I voted for dog B. "The Book" says that a dog shouldn't give voice. Can't quote it because I can't read that small print right now. I can handle a little yip or two, but barking in the holding blinds can disturb the working dog and barking on the line shows lack of control. Yes, marking is of prime importance, but too much voice can go from a minor fault to a major one.
I'd mark the dog down and tell the owner his/her dog is waaaayyy too noisy. If it continued into the next series, the dog would be gone. Try sitting in a hunting blind with Dog A--no thanks.
I remember seeing a top notch F/T bitch (later won a Natl. Amateur) dropped because of too much voice on the line.
Just my little ol' opinion.
Suzanne B
 
Maybe if dog B just hunted one of the marks I would be more inclined to pick him. However, this is a derby and I would want to reward the dog with the greatest natural ability to mark a fall. I think the Qual is a better place to sort out these types of issues.

Vocalization IMO is often a result of great desire. And yes it needs to be brought under control. However, I wouldn't trade a vocal PUP with great desire for a quiet one without.
 
1 - 20 of 70 Posts