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Glenda I didn't test Billie for PRA.
I know her sire Bart is clear, and her puppy Raisin is clear and I won't be
breeding her again so I didn't see much point in another $195 test.
Par4don my ignorance, but I am lost as to why you would not have tested Billie.

The fact Bart is clear as well as Raisin does not indicate that any or all of the other pups in your Bart x Billie litter are clear. However, had you tested Billie instead of Raisin and determined that Billie was clear, and with Bart also clear, all the pup owners would know that their pup was clear and none would have to test their pups. That is, for the money spent on Raisin you could have cleared the entire litter by testing Billie instead of Raisin.

What am I missing here?
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
I didn't have a Billie x Bart litter.
Bart is Billie's sire.

I bred Billie x Boomer which gave us one baby Raisin .

I had no other puppies to prove clearance from that breeding, and I wanted the test result "papers" on the bitch (Raisin) that I might breed in future.

Does that clarify at all?
 
I didn't have a Billie x Bart litter.
Bart is Billie's sire.

I bred Billie x Boomer which gave us one baby Raisin .

I had no other puppies to prove clearance from that breeding, and I wanted the test result "papers" on the bitch (Raisin) that I might breed in future.

Does that clarify at all?
All of you are catching onto this stuff pretty quick!

And Jim's post does demonstrate how by choosing who you test, based on what you may know from previously tested dogs, you can save some $ in getting the data you desire.

Janice's post demonstrates how you might have reasons for doing the testing the way she did.

Since Billie's reproductive life was over, and there was only one offspring to test, Billie's influence would only be carried on by that one offspring.

The other side of the coin: If Billie were tested clear, then she would not have had to test Raisin (with Boomer clear & Billie clear, not possible for Raisin to be anything but clear as well).

BUT ... if Billie were a carrier, it would then reveal that Billie's dam was a carrier. While Billie's dam only shows one litter on k9data, it would then mean that owners of Billie's siblings should also test their dogs before breeding. And if Billie were clear, it would NOT mean that all other siblings were also clear. Those people would still have to test ... unless Billie's dam were tested. But Janice was not the one who was in the position to test Billie's dam.

Janice is one smart cookie:D

Save some money ... have the owners of the offspring from Billie's dam "chip in" to pay for the testing of the dam if they want to? There are 7 offspring from that particular litter (other than Billie). Split 7 ways the $195 becomes a less daunting cost.

Along this same line of thinking, when a litter like this is bred (with the sire already known to be clear and the dam untested), the breeder could simply add on $20 or $25 to the price of each pup for the purpose of testing the dam ... and explain to each pup purchaser the reason for the additional cost. By paying $20 or $25 now, they could possibly save themselves $195 later. Sounds like it's worth the "gamble". And, it provides a way for a breeder to do a good service to both the pup-buyers and the databanks.

This "plan" wouldn't have worked for Billie's dam since we didn't even know about this disease or the test when Billie was whelped ... but it could be a possible help from this point forward.
 
I didn't have a Billie x Bart litter.
Bart is Billie's sire.

I bred Billie x Boomer which gave us one baby Raisin .

I had no other puppies to prove clearance from that breeding, and I wanted the test result "papers" on the bitch (Raisin) that I might breed in future.

Does that clarify at all?
Yes, thank you.

Again, pardon my ignorance. Egg all over my face. Not only did I get the breeding mixed up in my mind, I did not realize that Raisin was a singleton pup. :oops: :oops: :oops:

I agree that given there are no other Billie pups out there and she is not to be bred again, better to have tested Raisin.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Gerry you continue to amaze me!
I'll never understand it all like you do.

But yes, I definately believe by posts such as mine, Jim and yours, it really does give a much clearer picture for future testing, who, why, how, when etc.

This is all so new and we are obviously learning from each other...
 
I have let some of the owners of pups from the litter that produced Billie know about Bart being prcd/PRA normal/clear. Most are not being used for breeding as they compete in obedience and the owners do not necessarily want intact dogs or plan to breed. Also, the bitch that produced that litter only planned on having the one litter as she is highly competitive in obedience.

I feel as time goes on, hopefully persons will test enough dogs that puppy owners will know that both parents are clear so they do not need to test or that one parent isn't clear so it is very important they test if they ever plan to breed their pup.

Glenda
 
Janice,

Good Point! There is nothing hush-hush about Anita's site in Germany. She is very appreciative of results sent to her.

Here is Anita's site: http://www.kennel-deep-impact.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=93&Itemid=177

You can see all the results she has compliled. If you want your dogs results posted, you must send her an e-amil, giving her permission to post them. The e-mail address is on the site....the (a) is the equivilant of our "@" so be sure to change that, if you copy clip the address.

I am very much looking forward to your seminar in October and to meeting you finally!

Diane

The German list is unfortunately "emotionally biased", I have sent the test results for my dog several times but is has not been published.
 
Yesterday the Swedish Golden retriever Club published information regarding the first Optigen tested prcd-PRA carrier ever from British field trial bloodlines:

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=274152

(Just to blown my own horn (?), this is also a direct effect of my effort to inform the Europeans about prcd-PRA.)



Optigen about incidence:

"at least 3 or 4 different lines of goldens (no common ancestors w/in 4 generations) have been identified in the US so far."

Optigen about degree of seriousness:

"I think we may have just caught prcd-PRA as it was rising in the population. There have been some popular sires that are carriers and if the DNA test was not available then I think the goldens could have had a very serious problem within a few years. I'm glad we can nip it in the bud."
 
Linda-
Where did the quotes from Optigen come from?
 
Yesterday the Swedish Golden retriever Club published information regarding the first Optigen tested prcd-PRA carrier ever from British field trial bloodlines:

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=274152
This dog is mentioned as well on the Finnish website ...
http://www.goldenklubben.com/

My Finnish is non-existent but dogs' names are the same in all languages.

This dog's status would seem to verify that the disease is/has been present in a totally different gene pool from North America's.

The Swedish club has a list of dogs with physical dx of PRA. Perhaps now some of them will be tested to see if they have the prcd form. If it turns out that way, it could be a positive result for some of those Swedish breeders.
 
The German list is unfortunately "emotionally biased", I have sent the test results for my dog several times but is has not been published.
Linda, what are you talkin about???

I did not receive one single mail from you!

But if you like your dogs published - best way is publish them here with the ok for me to publish them on my website - so there will not be any risk to loose your information possibly in my spam filter.

For all - if someones message is not answered latest in beetween 3 days I did not receive it - then contact me please again.

Anita
 
Hi Anita,

Nice to meet you out here...Isn't Gerry a wealth of information on this subject! My avatar is the Ambertrail pup you posted on your site for me a couple weeks ago.

Diane
 
Hi Anita,

Nice to meet you out here...Isn't Gerry a wealth of information on this subject! My avatar is the Ambertrail pup you posted on your site for me a couple weeks ago.

Diane
Hi Diane,

I think al lot of Retriever people meet somewhere in a Forum :))) We have also several in German language.
I do not have an Ambertrail Puppy but a Granddaughter - that is one reason why I started my interest in that topic.
I have got a lot of information from Gerry personally as well as here in the forum - that is really great.

Also there is a lot of support from Scandinavian breeders and owners.

Have a nice day!

Anita
 
This dog is mentioned as well on the Finnish website ...
http://www.goldenklubben.com/

My Finnish is non-existent but dogs' names are the same in all languages.

This dog's status would seem to verify that the disease is/has been present in a totally different gene pool from North America's.

The Swedish club has a list of dogs with physical dx of PRA. Perhaps now some of them will be tested to see if they have the prcd form. If it turns out that way, it could be a positive result for some of those Swedish breeders.

That is actually the Swedish GRC website. Below is the KC official list of all PRA affected and carrier Goldens:

http://www.rasdata.nu/golden/pra0000.htm

PRA generell = affected with PRA
Anlagsbärare= carrier

Parents of sick dogs are automatically considered to be carriers. This is the type pf PRA for which there is no test. All affecteds plus some relatives of these from the last 5 years have been Optigen tested and they did not have the prcd variety.
 
Thought I could share some information about the historical genetic background of the Golden retriever breed that I think could be less known (?). It could be related to prcd-PRA in Goldens:

In Europe there has been some early crossing in of Labradors into the Golden breed. This supreme British golden database gives info on these mixes:

http://www.standfastdata.co.uk/

On the search page choose "dogs", then choose the comparisonalternative "Matches any words in" and write "interbred" in the "search for" field and there are 19 dogs registered as interberds (many related).

This dog is an example, he is related to 2 different Lab mixes

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=22440

These are the 2 mixes he is related to:

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=56196

and

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=5797
 
Linda, what are you talkin about???

I did not receive one single mail from you!

But if you like your dogs published - best way is publish them here with the ok for me to publish them on my website - so there will not be any risk to loose your information possibly in my spam filter.

For all - if someones message is not answered latest in beetween 3 days I did not receive it - then contact me please again.

Anita
Well according to my gmail account I have sent the info the 24th of January and the 18th of March to the mailadress posted on your website. I will try to send it again.
 
Janice:

Great news on all counts. (Sigh of relief for the PRA).

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paula
 
Yes, thank you.

Again, pardon my ignorance. Egg all over my face. Not only did I get the breeding mixed up in my mind, I did not realize that Raisin was a singleton pup. :oops: :oops: :oops:

I agree that given there are no other Billie pups out there and she is not to be bred again, better to have tested Raisin.
I don't know about you folks but we lost our golden last night from a swallowing disorder. Jim has called me a moran.

I have Kodi. Boomer's son here in North Carolina. I have seen thousands of goldens over my lifetime. Benchstock and hunting lines.

If you had seen what I have seen with the breed and the GRCA in the last 10 years everyone would stop breeding.

In all in the "genes" folks. All the puppies from Boomer will be fine. Believe me. Kodi has been tested at NC state for all the "bad" stuff. He came back from his trainer way too skinny again.

Why is Kodi so thin. Why does he do back flips off the kennel walls. Goldens make terrible kennel dogs??? You tell me that answer.
 
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