MH title: Does it really matter?

GulfCoast · Jun 29, 2008

DL said:
I don't think the original post is saying that getting a MH title is easy, or putting anyone down.

You must have missed these parts:

Josh Smith said:
Some hunt test people take themselves way too seriously and they usually know a lot less than they think they do.

Judges often do not know what they are setting up or what they are looking for in a test.

Then they'll throw a bunch of breaking birds to get the Pass % down to an acceptable number because the marks and blinds did not eliminate many dogs.

Hunt test should be easier so that owners can get their ribbons, dogs can get their titles, and handlers can socialize at the club steak fry (instead of running until 9pm).

If owners want more of a challenge, they can run a Q somewhere.

JS

Brad Slaybaugh · Jun 29, 2008

I'm thinking all you boys are falling for the poison bird here!!!!

ignore the ignorance regards.
Brad

Josh Smith · Jun 29, 2008

The black puppies just turned 1 year old. The bitch has a JH but she is out of an NAFC. Many hunt test people believe that their ordinary dogs are worth a million $$. The field trial people that I know, provide stud services and puppies that are fairly and reasonably priced and don't over-sell or over-market their dogs.

Now, if you are talking about the top 2-3 studs in the country and a top bitch line, you had better get out your checkbook. But you can easily spend less than $1000.00 and get a top prospect. It may just feel better to spend more for some people. Nothing wrong with that.

Back to hunt tests: They are supposed to be for the average guy and his hunting dog. They have gone a long way from that and I am just wondering when and where it will end. When you have two or three pros collecting 15-20 ribbons after the test while mom, dad, and the kids leave realizing that they can't afford the game or ever hope to compete with the pros, it is just wrong.

It just becomes about the money. If you can spend $4000 + per year for three or four years on a trainer, you can probably get a MH title. Most of the middle class can't afford that.

Miriam Wade · Jun 29, 2008

Josh Smith said:
Back to hunt tests: They are supposed to be for the average guy and his hunting dog. They have gone a long way from that and I am just wondering when and where it will end. When you have two or three pros collecting 15-20 ribbons after the test while mom, dad, and the kids leave realizing that they can't afford the game or ever hope to compete with the pros, it is just wrong.

It just becomes about the money. If you can spend $4000 + per year for three or four years on a trainer, you can probably get a MH title. Most of the middle class can't afford that.

I may be feeding a troll, but...

..you are dead wrong-at least if speaking about folks in my area of the country. Plenty of folks here who train their own dogs and have solid Master dogs. It's NOT about money, but time and dedicaton-oh-& it's supposed to be (& is for most of us) fun. For those that prefer to use a pro-no harm-no foul, but plenty of average joes have no problem training to the Master level and titling.

M

john fallon · Jun 29, 2008

All of the points that Josh is making have been made countless times on this very Forum, but they were civilly debated because the posters had a lot more posts under their collective belts.

When He says that "some HT judges don't know what they are setting up", is that the first time that we have heard that here?

When he says. "They are supposed to be for the average guy and his hunting dog. They have gone a long way from that ......" I've heard UB and others say that countless times.

And........"Some hunt test people take themselves way too seriously and they usually know a lot less than they think they do." surely you don't dispute this
.....or in some cases this. "Then they'll throw a bunch of breaking birds to get the Pass % down to an acceptable number .........."

Point by point we have heard it all before...... the difference is he's, new here, so y'all think you have the collective right to bust his chops.

Like I told that one guy early on in the thread if you think differently and can articulate your point then by all means do so;-)

john

Patrick Johndrow · Jun 29, 2008

Josh Smith said:
Do any hunt test titles really matter to anyone except the dog owner?
JS

Nope......

David Maddox · Jun 29, 2008

Noone cares? It's really not that clear cut. Just a thought here.

I do agree that most "other" people could care less about most HT titles, unless the HT bitch has, a smokin' pedigree, TONS of talent, and proven FT titled siblings, and is bred to a very nice stud. Then potential buyers "care".

LOTS of FC/or AFCs have come out of nice breedings of HT bitches.

Many times I've heard people in the puppy buying market comment "...the bitch needs to have a solid pedigree, and be at least a Master Hunter". There ya go. It does mean something. Heard it many times...ON THESE BOARDS.

If for anything, the HT titles display trainability and marking ability.

Typically, the pup out of a MH bitch will sell consistantly faster, and for more money than if the dam has no title whatsoever. That's been pretty much the norm.

But typically, it is the owner, and only the owner, that cares.

Jacob Hawkes · Jun 29, 2008

http://www.hightest.com/trn_akcpedigree.php

badbullgator · Jun 29, 2008

Danm Greg, suziq, percent, or whatever name you are going by today,....don't you have anything better to do?

Dave Burton · Jun 30, 2008

Someone posted asking how many MH's went on to be a fc or afc. How about this question? How many fc or afc's ran the Master National and didn't pass? If I'm not mistaken there have been a few.

J Hoggatt · Jun 30, 2008

labman63 said:
Someone posted asking how many MH's went on to be a fc or afc. How about this question? How many fc or afc's ran the Master National and didn't pass? If I'm not mistaken there have been a few.

I think that is a great question! -

Do figures lie or do liars figure? - I really am not sure about that one.........

PS-
Not taking on this issue or anyone-just a spectator- (My disclaimer)

Jacob Hawkes · Jun 30, 2008

labman63 said:
Someone posted asking how many MH's went on to be a fc or afc. How about this question? How many fc or afc's ran the Master National and didn't pass? If I'm not mistaken there have been a few.

Time out bad guy. You're trying to tell me that a MH is better than a FC AFC? That what you're trying to say?

cakaiser · Jun 30, 2008

labman63 said:
Someone posted asking how many MH's went on to be a fc or afc. How about this question? How many fc or afc's ran the Master National and didn't pass? If I'm not mistaken there have been a few.

You know, we hang around at a lot of FTs, I don't hear all the negative comments from people about the HT game, most seem to feel it's a fine idea.

What does it matter, or even mean if a so called FT dog fails a HT? Dogs fail tests all the time, what does that prove? Many HT dogs could run FTs if they were trained for it, it's mostly the same genetics.

JeffLusk · Jun 30, 2008

champ said:
This guy puts it perfect. Why is it that the diehard hunttester's want this distinction between what venue you run in? It's almost like a black and white thing, I have never heard a field trialer say something negative about the HT game?

what part of wa are you from?

Chris Atkinson · Jun 30, 2008

Josh Smith said:
The black puppies just turned 1 year old. The bitch has a JH but she is out of an NAFC. Many hunt test people believe that their ordinary dogs are worth a million $$. The field trial people that I know, provide stud services and puppies that are fairly and reasonably priced and don't over-sell or over-market their dogs.

Now, if you are talking about the top 2-3 studs in the country and a top bitch line, you had better get out your checkbook. But you can easily spend less than $1000.00 and get a top prospect. It may just feel better to spend more for some people. Nothing wrong with that.

Back to hunt tests: They are supposed to be for the average guy and his hunting dog. They have gone a long way from that and I am just wondering when and where it will end. When you have two or three pros collecting 15-20 ribbons after the test while mom, dad, and the kids leave realizing that they can't afford the game or ever hope to compete with the pros, it is just wrong.

It just becomes about the money. If you can spend $4000 + per year for three or four years on a trainer, you can probably get a MH title. Most of the middle class can't afford that.

This post reads much more friendly than the opener.

I'm glad you pulled back on the part about

Some hunt test people take themselves way too seriously and they usually know a lot less than they think they do.

This more recent post almost reads like you are taking a slightly different tack now.

Chris

Guest · Jun 30, 2008

champ,

Why did you remove your real name from your signature line? I don't understand why a professional field trainer would do that? If he/she is trying to make a point, why wouldn't they want to include their name?

Love,

John Gassner

Aussie · Jun 30, 2008

Josh Smith said:
If owners want more of a challenge, they can run a Q somewhere.

JS

Off topic, but what I like about other labrador breeding programs ie Guide dog for the visually impaired is all breeding stock have to pass the training program (besides all their health clearances) and be proofed in the "field".

Do game titles matter? Yes.......see above. Criteria is met.

Dave Burton · Jun 30, 2008

SLICK said:
Time out bad guy. You're trying to tell me that a MH is better than a FC AFC? That what you're trying to say?

Bad guy? I wasn't saying that at all. I was making a point to the statement that a master test was easy and the title didn't matter. I have a pup out of a FC/AFC and I also have one out of two senior hunters that I really like. I have all the respect for FT dogs and the people who train them as I do with alot of HT dogs and trainers. I will probably venture into the FT game and run a derby in the near future but for now I'm content to run HT and learn all I can.

FOM · Jun 30, 2008

My Dad can beat your Dad up!

No Caffine This Morning Regards,

FOM

Jacob Hawkes · Jun 30, 2008

labman63 said:
Bad guy? I wasn't saying that at all. I was making a point to the statement that a master test was easy and the title didn't matter. I have a pup out of a FC/AFC and I also have one out of two senior hunters that I really like. I have all the respect for FT dogs and the people who train them as I do with alot of HT dogs and trainers. I will probably venture into the FT game and run a derby in the near future but for now I'm content to run HT and learn all I can.

Bad guy would be nothing more than a saying. Don't take it personal. I'm not sure anybody in their right mind would make mention of a MH title being, "Easy". As to whatever you run, whatever floats your boat. If you like it, I love it and am happy for ya.

MH title: Does it really matter?

GulfCoast

Brad Slaybaugh

Josh Smith

Miriam Wade

john fallon

Patrick Johndrow

David Maddox

Jacob Hawkes

badbullgator

Dave Burton

J Hoggatt

Jacob Hawkes

cakaiser

JeffLusk

Chris Atkinson

Guest

Aussie

Dave Burton

FOM

Jacob Hawkes

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