Not sure how to state this, and have no idea how to set up a poll, but was wondering which people would rather have? A competative EIC or CNM carrier, or a non-competative clean dog? After reading all the other threads and trying to figure out for myself what is truely important to me, I thought it might be interesting. I personally have not chosen a litter due to the stud being a CNM carrier, but am not sure taking all carriers out of the gene pool is a good thing either. On one hand the dog would not be personally burdened, and with resposible testing, no other affected dogs would suffer either. On the other hand, are breeders to be held responsible for the people they sell to as far as future breeding of the offspring? Granted the limited registration or spay/neuter clause could also be a way. How many other non desireable traits should we be looking to elimiate? I have a cheater, should she be taken out of the gene pool, or is it even something that is passed on? Who can say for sure if it is genetic? Just food for thought!
What would you rather have?
Bustin'
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Not sure how to state this, and have no idea how to set up a poll, but was wondering which people would rather have? A competative EIC or CNM carrier, or a non-competative clean dog? After reading all the other threads and trying to figure out for myself what is truely important to me, I thought it might be interesting. I personally have not chosen a litter due to the stud being a CNM carrier, but am not sure taking all carriers out of the gene pool is a good thing either. On one hand the dog would not be personally burdened, and with resposible testing, no other affected dogs would suffer either. On the other hand, are breeders to be held responsible for the people they sell to as far as future breeding of the offspring? Granted the limited registration or spay/neuter clause could also be a way. How many other non desireable traits should we be looking to elimiate? I have a cheater, should she be taken out of the gene pool, or is it even something that is passed on? Who can say for sure if it is genetic? Just food for thought!
G
Guest
·Either dog -- clean or carrier... competitive or not... although competitive would be great, of course. Carrying either of those doesn't bother me as long as I don't produce affected dogs and almost MORE importantly -- as long as the folks I sell a puppy to don't breed affected dogs... THAT is the problem, in my opinion... Bottom line is EDUCATION.
-Kristie
-Kristie
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That needs to be said again.
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It clearly depends on your objectives with the dog. If you don't intend to breed at all -- as is the case with almost every person to whom I have sold a pup -- being a carrier is irrelevant. If your primary interest is competition, the choice should obviously be the more competitive dog. If your dog turns out to be a national champion, you can still probably find people who will want puppies from your dog without regard to its carrier status. If your primary objective is to have a solid female to use in a breeding program, then you probably want a non-carrier both for marketing reasons and because it makes it easier to select the best male without regard to whether he also is a carrier.
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I'll take the carrier. I'm got going to breed either one.
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I did a poll a couple years ago asking what people would do with the following scenario. A very nice litter was born, I think it was half the litter was going to be CNM affected and would have to be put down and I think the rest were guarenteed to be FC's. I asked people what they would do, if they had interest in the litter knowing the negative possibility. The over abundance of people said they would for sure without question roll the dice and get a pup from this litter and just hope for the best. Some of the comments were even to the point of, "it is so hard to get an FC or AFC" that they would buy multiple pups out of this litter or even the entire litter and deal with the sad negatives in order to get the possible positives.
So to answer your question, I would highly doubt there is anyone that is competitive with their dogs that would say they would rather have a fully genetically clear healthy non-carrier non-competetive dog than a carrier competetive dog. Just doesn't make sense unless it is just a pet dog.
I would be interested to know how many "Competetive serious HT or FT people" would really turn down the right carrier pup.
So to answer your question, I would highly doubt there is anyone that is competitive with their dogs that would say they would rather have a fully genetically clear healthy non-carrier non-competetive dog than a carrier competetive dog. Just doesn't make sense unless it is just a pet dog.
I would be interested to know how many "Competetive serious HT or FT people" would really turn down the right carrier pup.
G
Guest
·yuck, I'm glad I don't remember that... Kind of disgusting that people were willing to have a bunch of eventually crippled, suffering puppies born... Sad.
-K
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Delete CNM for .......whatever.....affected. Any clean dogs out there?. I should imagine the large colony breeders (Guide dogs for the blind, military etc who exchange information and genetic material), have a better "chance".
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My $.02 is that if you have a carrier, no matter how much it hurts you and your wallet, you need to do the right thing for the breed and NOT breed that dog. 50% of the pups will be carriers, and 50% won't, but what happens when someone irresponsible (or worse ignorant) breeds to another carrier?
We can't be "right here, right now" people and breeders, trainers, handlers, and canine lovers. We need to do the responsible thing for our breeds and NOT breed to carriers. For the future of the breed, and the health of future litters, we need to be more responsible.
It sucks, but we have to "purify" the future in order to ensure the survival of the dogs we all love...
Dude, I'm sounding a little like a hippie, but can you blame me... but if we chose not to breed carriers, what could the HARM be? We know there are risks for breeding carriers, so why take the chance???
Just my .02
Richard
Legacy 6
We can't be "right here, right now" people and breeders, trainers, handlers, and canine lovers. We need to do the responsible thing for our breeds and NOT breed to carriers. For the future of the breed, and the health of future litters, we need to be more responsible.
It sucks, but we have to "purify" the future in order to ensure the survival of the dogs we all love...
Dude, I'm sounding a little like a hippie, but can you blame me... but if we chose not to breed carriers, what could the HARM be? We know there are risks for breeding carriers, so why take the chance???
Just my .02
Richard
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I can't remember the exacts of the questions I put in the poll but, it was essentially as I stated, the point was basically the same. I agree Kristie, it is a little wierd or sad but, that is what the majority of the people said. One if the points was that it is so hard to get a FC and people often go through many dogs to get there and so having a guarentee of a litter having FC's increased the desire for wanting those pups. I think it shows how competetive serious dog games are to many people.
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Sorry Richard but breeding carriers to non carriers isn't irresponsible or screwing up the breed. It's continuing some very old, strong, & competitive bloodlines that deserve to be preserved. A carrier is only a liability if the owner is a liability. I choose to believe that the risk is worth it and people will do the right thing. I do not own a carrier but would not shy away from one if it was a breeding that I wanted.
Lyle
Lyle
G
Guest
·Richard, I don't know you, so forgive my questions. Are you a breeder? Are you a competitor? Do you know what goes into making a truly successful animal both from a health standpoint and a training standpoint?
I can't think of anyone I know who wouldn't be more than willing to own a carrier--the one thing in our dogs' lifetimes/careers that can be controlled/managed--over all the other unknowns we will encounter. It's a no brainer.
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Easy on the affected dogs........They can throw only carriers, just like the carriers if bread to a clear. Nothing wrong with breeding an affected dog as long as it's to a clear. Shortly you will understand why. What difference does it make if the a carrier pup comes from an affected dog, or a carrier dog? NONE. There will be just less of them in a litter.
The main purpose here, and will be, is to not end up with an affected dog. Doesn't mean you shouldn't breed one that is.
Oh, and when the chit hits the fan, good luck finding quality clear dogs to breed to..........buyer beware.
Edit: one more note: This just ain't a FT problem......it extends to HT dogs as well.
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WRONG.....some maybe. That's what folks don't understand. We are talking EIC right? Dogs range from mild to severe with reactions concerning EIC. Some never have episodes.......Not sure where you are coming from with that comment.
Edit with response: I see you are probably talking about CNM dogs...........that may very well be true.
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