RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

High Drive

Jump to Latest
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

Chris Meyer

· Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
I recently posted a thread called "sloppy". It was about my lab and not holding the dumy in his mouth correctly and carrying it at the end kind of like a cigar.
I've been going back to FF for the past 3 weeks and not retrieving at all. He understands Hold, Fetch, and is CC'd to pick it up. When I train just this, he's fine. The minute I went back to even 10 foot retrieves with or without the collar, or even on a leash he went back to his old behavior of carrying the dumy at the end and rolling or "chomping". He does not have this problem when using birds or other various objects and he never drops the dumy. He is a extremely high drive dog that picks up the dumy on the run and doesn't take the time to "correctly" pick it up. Even when it looks like it'll fall out of his mouth, if you tap it, it takes a bit of power to get him to drop it.
My question is, should I be concerned and continue to drill him on FF even though he knows and understands the commands? And if I do, will I possibly induce other problems like sometimes happens in effect such as barking at the line or unsteadiness?

BTW: My name is Chris Meyer. I've trained for 5 years as an amatuer and live in Wisconsin. I'm here for ideas and to help others if possible. Thanks.
 
#3 ·
Aussie, I have to disagree with you here. My very fast boy chomps on the way in. His one and only goal in life is the retrieve, but...in excitement he chomps. He is just as fast on the return as the outward bound. I have been looking long and hard for a "slow down" command. Most folks think that can not be done. We shall see.
 
#4 ·
2tall said:
Aussie, I have to disagree with you here. My very fast boy chomps on the way in. His one and only goal in life is the retrieve, but...in excitement he chomps. He is just as fast on the return as the outward bound. I have been looking long and hard for a "slow down" command. Most folks think that can not be done. We shall see.
Click to expand...
I am glad you disagree. I have attended a few Schutzhund seminars by the way, where they talk of mouth issues, grip blah blah blah. Generally they feel mouth issues are genetic -switches on what they call poorer than ideal nerves. Does your dogs siblings chomp?
 
#6 ·
Unfortunately, I don't have a clue what his sibs are doing. The only ones I have been able to find out anything about, were his brothers that placed or RJ'd in Derby and Qual. I beleve, and so does the OB trainer I am working with, that the chomping is a result of stress. He stresses himself, and I am learning to help him with it. We may not be able to fix it altogether, but we sure are having fun doing OB!
 
#7 ·
RemsBPJasper said:
I did a search and am now trying to teach hold with a gloved hand to stop the chomping on my very high 14 month old pup. I'll let you know if I have any success.
Click to expand...
Like this topic, as I researched for years why I own an intermittent hard mouth dog.

Told more than once, why encourage a youngster ever to possibly create a habit, of mouthing our gloved hands.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
If I jog with him on a leash, he won't chomp. I'm not sure if it's cause I'm right next to him or if it's cause he's running at a slower pace. I personally think it's pure excitement. He drives so hard it's like he forgets his training, even though he knows it in and out. This happens in the field, yard and even in the house. The minute I go back to FF in a completely controlled environment, he's fine. All I really need to know is should I continue to drill him even after 2 months of FF and the fact that he understands it, or should I leave it as it is?
 
#9 ·
Aussie, so far, after a few days, no negative associations with her trying to get my hands, gloved or not. Once the session is done, it's done. Glove is put up and we're done, she's off to do something else. The reason I'm trying it is because I can control even the smallest movement. And I've read of a lot of people doing it. For every person who tells you to do something, there'll be just as many telling you not to. Works for some dogs, doesn't for others. We'll see with my girl. She has no hard mouth issues whatsoever. If I take the bumper and drop it on accident, she dives after it. The fetch is by no means the problem. She will hold it for long periods of time, while walking, etc. but she'll chomp and roll. More so when you're trying to take it from her, she'll throw her head up at you and start rolling it. Either way, I'm trying it, and again, we'll see. :)

Kourtney
 
#10 ·
You say FF, are you going through the whole program? Hold, fetch, etc? It doesn't sound like his fetch is in question, as with my dog. I guess I'd say it's up to you if you want to drill him more or not. You said he doesn't do it on ducks...then you could assume you won't have a problem in a test. BUT, don't expect it not to transfer over to ducks eventually, just be aware there's potential for that to happen.
 
#11 ·
I read a very good article by Butch Goodwin regarding cigaring, here is a paragraph or two and the link:

"I have tried a number of things over the years to teach youngsters to pick up and carry bumpers correctly right from the beginning. If I saw that a dog had the inclination to carry bumpers by the ends, the first thing I always tried was putting him in a "sit" and teaching him the correct position for holding a bumper while I walked him along doing heeling drills. This usually works really well at my side, but in the excitement of making the retrieve, most youngsters - seem to quickly forget the lessons they were taught and revert back to their old habits.

Another trick I tried came from one of the old-time trainers. His cure was to wrap wire, about 17-gauge diameter, around each end of a bumper. But he didn’t just wrap several turns of wire around the bumpers. He would wrap three short, individual pieces around each end, and twist each piece of the wire to hold it onto the bumper By making the twists on opposite sides of the bumper, it replicated small barbs, which made it uncomfortable to say the least, for the dog to grab the bumper by the ends. This may have worked out best for him, but I found that simply wrapping several tight turns of wire around each end of the bumper, sans the barb, broke the cigaring mindset and taught the dogs to carry them only by the center.

I also tried Dokken Deadfowl Trainers, which are designed to force a dog to carry them correctly. If a dog grabs them anywhere except by the body, it is uncomfortable, and he will likely have to readjust his grip to carry it correctly. Similarly, if he has a tendency to want to shake bumpers or birds, the floppy head on the Dokken will smack him in the side of the face, and he will, generally, stop the shaking" http://northernflight.com/cigaring.htm Hope this helps.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #13 ·
He has been through hold. He knows what it means. The issue is that once we start throwing dummies, he's back to his old habits. Even if I correct him, with a leash or the e-collar, when there's dummies to be chased, the correction does nothing. He's so high drive that I can "crank up" the level of corrections to the point of him vocalizing and he doesn't care.
 
#14 ·
Ahhhh Aussie
Then you know breeding for over the top drive can result in nervyness and instability and one of the mainfistations of that is chewyness

Pete
 
#15 ·
I'd back off and start a lot of OB to get the dog focused on you, attempt to get him to slow down. Look for alternative ways to get the desired result. It doesn't sound like drilling him will help. Will the gloved hold help my dog? I don't know yet. But OB helped her stop vocalizing and put some focus on me. By improving one area you might possibly indirectly improve another. Think outside the box. That's just what I would do. And will probably have to with my dog.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
About this Discussion
14 Replies
6 Participants
Last post:
RemsBPJasper
RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF
posts
1.5M
members
36K
Since
2003
A forum community dedicated to retriever owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, training, health, behavior, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Retriever Training Forum Event Information AKC Field Trials Equipment, Gear & Miscellaneous Classifieds Training