Having never got to see the dog run, can someone tell me what Mac was known for? What were his strengths and weaknesses? Was he above average marker? What traits does his offspring usually possess? Thanks in advance for any and all answers. We just did this for Cosmo and of course I'm asking because my new pup has cosmo as a sire and Mac as a grandfather. I wanted high power, high energy.
Lean Mac
hawgsalot
21 - 40 of 72 Posts
Joined
·
2,061 Posts
Our area always competed against Lardy's truck several weekends during the season. Contrary to popular belief he couldn't walk on water, but Maxx seemed to be more consistent than many titled dogs. He did seem to add a positive conformation.
Joined
·
913 Posts
Chavez, Ritz, Prize, Ford, Fargo after those 5 you also have Tiger McBunn, Chubby Mac, and Dust Devil Shoots the Moon.
Marty
Several years back I met a horse race person, Rick Pabst of Pabst Blue Ribbon fame, who is a horse breeder. During our conversation I mentioned I liked to read & he suggested I read "Horse of a Different Color" by the early owner-breeder of Monarchos & "Stud" about the marketing of stud horses in the upper reaches of horse racing. When I finished all I could think of was Lean Mac & the marketing. Try it, if you disagree, PM me.
Lean Mac was not the 1st hot derby dog that Sherwin had tried to make into flavor of the month, but was his most successful. I just believe a lot of the judges could not get beyond the hype & the dog got the benefit of the doubt all to often.
I ran against Lean Mac in his early career & for the life of me cannot get over the adulation shown on these threads for a dog no one saw run. Had you seen the real thing you might be more reserved in your praise. I stood in the holding blind at Sun Valley as he was running the 3rd series H2O blind & felt he had failed the test. Poor iniitial line, crabbing to the water (saw that in one of those $2,500 pups), hack & chop - was later told the 3rd series was spectacular compared to the 8th series H2O blind. Also saw him quit on many a H2O blind after he was titled when he was running our circuit - & on a Water Quad watched him blow bubbles in the middle of the pond with nary a thought where bird #3 was, let alone #4.
It can best be summed up in this comment by someone who should know - get a black dog from the pound that looks like a Field Bred labrador, breed him to 100 good bitches, place the pups as the Lean Mac pups have been placed & you'll have everyone in the country wanting to breed to this non descript product of the local pound.
The product of good hype, regards!!!
Joined
·
8,909 Posts
Several years back I met a horse race person, Rick Pabst of Pabst Blue Ribbon fame, who is a horse breeder. During our conversation I mentioned I liked to read & he suggested I read "Horse of a Different Color" by the early owner-breeder of Monarchos & "Stud" about the marketing of stud horses in the upper reaches of horse racing. When I finished all I could think of was Lean Mac & the marketing. Try it, if you disagree, PM me.
Lean Mac was not the 1st hot derby dog that Sherwin had tried to make into flavor of the month, but was his most successful. I just believe a lot of the judges could not get beyond the hype & the dog got the benefit of the doubt all to often.
I ran against Lean Mac in his early career & for the life of me cannot get over the adulation shown on these threads for a dog no one saw run. Had you seen the real thing you might be more reserved in your praise. I stood in the holding blind at Sun Valley as he was running the 3rd series H2O blind & felt he had failed the test. Poor iniitial line, crabbing to the water (saw that in one of those $2,500 pups), hack & chop - was later told the 3rd series was spectacular compared to the 8th series H2O blind. Also saw him quit on many a H2O blind after he was titled when he was running our circuit - & on a Water Quad watched him blow bubbles in the middle of the pond with nary a thought where bird #3 was, let alone #4.
It can best be summed up in this comment by someone who should know - get a black dog from the pound that looks like a Field Bred labrador, breed him to 100 good bitches, place the pups as the Lean Mac pups have been placed & you'll have everyone in the country wanting to breed to this non descript product of the local pound.
The product of good hype, regards!!!
So you lost to him then?
/Paul
Joined
·
6,638 Posts
I actually think the relevant number for Lean Mac is 149 -- the current number of champions that he has sired according to Good Dog Info. I don't think they have been the product of judges wearing rose colored glasses or, despite the comments of some, a by-product of four gazillion breedings.
Actually beat him on his home grounds in the Derby at Kamloops - with good judging would have been a double header in a double Derby.So you lost to him then?
--- I & many like me watched him run - this is a consensus opinion from people who play the game.
Joined
·
6,638 Posts
Just to show I can do partial quotes also.
I .. breed ..to ..good bitches.. & ..want.. to .. pound.!!!
Joined
·
404 Posts
What I find fascinating is that the talent pool for some of the top rated FT and HT pedigrees has so many of the same recurring names. I am new to this only a couple of years, and have a couple of dogs that have some of the usual suspects in the 3 & 5 generation pedigree. The stories of the observations of folks who competed against those names is one of the real treasures guys like y'all pass along to folks like me who have dogs with Maxx in their genetics. Funny thing is when I read some of the quirks I understand better where they came from. So keep the stories and observations coming, the good, the bad and the funny too. Thanks for sharing.
I did a partial quote because that was the only part of your post that would be verifiable.Just to show I can do partial quotes also.
The 1st year Lean Mac breedings appeared on the year end Derby List their were 18 pups by 17 different bitches. While not a gazillion, it was certainly an unusual amount of sex by one stud. I believe I've already addressed the placing with moneyed owners.
Some of us do things besides read the Daily record maker, Regards
Joined
·
7,657 Posts
Marvin, I think you are 100% right on Lean Mac getting hyped. When Sherwin Scott was up here he was bragging how he’d never had to handle Lean Mac on a mark. That day he should have as the dog was lost well over 100 yards behind the long punch bird that I threw. I thought at the time that Sherwin Scott sounded like a salesman hyping the dog to recoup the cost of the dog.
I didn’t see but heard about the water blinds at the 1st nat’l am he won. Leonard Ferucci said his water blind problems were man made and to look at the underlying talent of the dog, the part that his puppies would get from him. I saw Lean Mac in 3 trials and I didn’t see anything great. Good, but not anything to hype as greater than other dogs. Len thought a little differently than me.
I was on Len’s waiting list for a pup from his FC AFC CNFC CAFC Chena River No Surprise. Len could have bred her to that dog pound dog you were talking about and I would have still bought a pup from her. She was the toughest bitch I’ve ever seen. I wanted him to breed to Super Tanker again but instead he went with Lean Mac. Len kept Chavez, I got Pricey, and Sherwin Scott got NFC Prize. Sherwin also got another one who didn’t do anything. When I first took Pricey to Gonia he said that he hadn't seen anything good out of Lean Mac. Pricey was his first. That was one wonderful litter.
Lean Mac was hyped. He was major hyped but he actually lived up to the hype IMO. Who would have believed then that he would go on to sire the number of FC’s he did? I don’t think Max was the best dog in his generation like Auggie is in his, but he’s the most prolific stud in any generation of retriever field trial dogs. Who woulda thunk it then?
I forget how exactly Joe Namath worded it but didn't he say something like, "It ain't braggin if you can actually do it?"
Joined
·
15,660 Posts
2X NAFC CNFC FC AFC River Oaks Corky.....and yes I did get to see him run
NAFC Ray's Rascal ...and yes he could mark(major understatement)
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
Joined
·
1,853 Posts
Some of those who decided to breed their good females to Maxx, knew the dog quite well, and knew Sherwin, also. These are people with equally strong opinions and personalities. Do you really think they were influenced so much by hype???
No dog wins every weekend, at least in that circuit. And, Lardy was the right trainer for Maxx, enough said.
No dog wins every weekend, at least in that circuit. And, Lardy was the right trainer for Maxx, enough said.
Joined
·
5,202 Posts
I was just thinking that the raw number of FC dogs produced by a given stud was much less relevant than the percentage of his total offspring that were titles, and along comes Kips comment...
I can't imagine the number of factors that would go into the latter version of the assesment, not knowing who owned/trained so many thousands of pups, so I suppose it is what it is.
I can't imagine the number of factors that would go into the latter version of the assesment, not knowing who owned/trained so many thousands of pups, so I suppose it is what it is.
Joined
·
3,787 Posts
I've stayed off this thread for specific reasons. However, just wanted to ask what was meant by this post.Some of those who decided to breed their good females to Maxx, knew the dog quite well, and knew Sherwin, also. These are people with equally strong opinions and personalities. Do you really think they were influenced so much by hype???
No dog wins every weekend, at least in that circuit. And, Lardy was the right trainer for Maxx, enough said.
Maxx was never on Lardy's truck until AFTER he won a Nat'l Am title.
Don Remein took Maxx from a derby dog to a Nat'l Winner.
WRL
21 - 40 of 72 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
