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Discussion starter · #1 ·
If this isn't the place to put this I apologize. This is such a great forum so I'm tryin' not to tick anyone off!:) But this is a really bad bill. There is an alert that's going through email lists that I'll put into a second post.

HB 1332 (Denney R) will be heard by the OK House Economic Development and Financial Services Committee on Tues, Feb. 10th at 4:30. This bill regulates anyone that transfers, sells, gives away more than 25 dogs in a calendar year. It appears it that out of state breeders who transport dogs into OK and meet that criteria will also have to purchase a license.

You can find the bill at http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/WebBillStatus/main.html
Click the left link for basic search and type HB 1332. It will pull up information about the bill. You can download the text by clicking the word "Introduced" at the top of the page.

This bill has already had two readings. Three and it passes the house. Below is an analysis. There is a grassroots movement to contact members of the committee to give input. I'll post the alert that's gone out in OK. It has the contact info and details.


Shelly Kuhn,
Edmond OK
(Who is being taught by her first competition dog. He's a pretty good teacher even if he's a Golden:) and that is NOT an apology!)
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
The alert:
Please read this email thoroughly there are a couple of different steps involved.
HB 1332 will be reviewed by this committee on Tuesday, February 10. This committee meets at 4:30pm. If you haven’t gotten your letter emailed to committee members do it now. Write and email your thoughts on HB 1332 to the list of contacts at the end of this email. Make sure you state that you oppose this bill. You can use the outline provided in this email but personalize your letter. This should not be a form letter that reads the same for everyone.

Monday and Tuesday make phone calls to the committee listed in this email. You don’t have to say a lot just state that you want to go on record as opposing HB 1332 and ask that they also oppose this bill. You can use the points below if you wish. Polite, respectful and professional is key. You’ll probably talk to a staff member and they certainly let their bosses know how they are treated.

If you are not a dog breeder don’t think this bill will not affect you. Increases in the costs to responsible breeders effects everyone. The bottom line is this bill drives substandard breeders deeper underground and adds unreasonable burdens to reputable responsible breeders who are already following the law.

Here is a suggested format for letters to legislators:
Letter Outline (use the K.I.S.S. theory, Kept it simple, silly):

Dear Rep _____________

(what) I oppose HB 1332 that will be heard on February 10, 2009 by the Economic Development and Financial Services Committee.

(who) State something about your interest, (a) dog enthusiast (b) USDA licensed breeder (c) Member of a Rescue group, etc.

(why) State why you oppose this bill. You can pick a few of the key points. Don’t try to list everything in your letter and be sure to personalize your statements.
· Includes all animal rescue organizations that utilize foster homes if they accumulate more than 25 animals. Legitimate rescue organizations provide a valuable community service and have proven to be effective in solving community pet issues.
· HB 1332 requires that out of state breeders cannot transport in OK without a state license. Under the provisions this would include out of state breeders that exhibit at dog/cat shows within the state of OK. These are people that bring valuable tourism dollars into the state. It would be wrong to impose licensure requirements to those that contribute to Oklahoma’s economy.
· Calls for the Oklahoma Department of Agriculture to develop and implement regulation pertaining to this bill. There is nothing that requires representation from stakeholders or public input.
· The bill will duplicate federal regulations and laws already in place. Would it not be beneficial and fiscally responsible to support the federal agency and help to enforce federal and state animal cruelty laws already in place?
· The bill proposes to assess fees and fines as the revenue source to implement and sustain the activities of this law. Even though it allows for other types of funding the state will incur the fiscal responsibility to ensure that funds are available. The state’s fundraising methods are to impose higher taxes. With the expected shortfall in state revenue is this the time to impose more tax burden on Oklahoma’s individuals and families?
· This bill gives any peace officer the authority to enter the premises of an individual or facility for any reason. There is nothing that addresses how peace officers will be trained or that they must be accompanied by trained personnel.
· This bill allows members of law enforcement to enter onto property without cause which infringes upon the constitutional rights of Oklahomans.
· Penalties include liens against the licensee’s personal property for failure to meet fines.
· Responsible breeders follow ethics guidelines and existing federal laws. The provisions of HB 1332 will encourage substandard breeders to burrow further underground. This will make the law more difficult and costly to enforce.
· The bill does not list an element for consumer protection. Consumers should be educated and hold a reasonable portion of the responsibility when purchasing pets.

(what you want the rep to do) I respectfully ask that you oppose HB1332 (and why…simple statement such as this is a bad bill for Oklahoma. You’re not re-listing the information)

Closing
(do not leave anything out. You want to creditable)
First and Last Name
Address
City State, zip
Telephone number
Email address

This list of contacts is too long but the committee information is at: http://www.okhouse.gov/Committees/Comm_CommitteeMembers.aspx?CommitteeID=83&SubcommitteeID=0
 
Oklahoma ranks high on the list of puppy mills. I just happened to visiit one not too far from Woodward. Although the kennels were fairly clean and I stopped by unannounced, I still found it appalling that there were hundreds of dogs, usually a male and a female, running around in 4x4 chicken wire kennels. Most seemed to be well-kept, but I'm sure if one gets sick, it is simply replaced with another, if you know what I mean.

Usually those that breed one or two litters a year are individuals that breed quality litters. I'm not one that would speak out for any kind of government regulation, but I also hear the voice of man's best friend that never has the experience of being part of a family in a puppy mill environment.

Oklahoma City is going to the 'no kill' shelter in a couple of years. But reality sings a different tune. As a way of controlling dog population and the unwanted realities of a puppy mill, I fail to see how requiring a license for
someone that sells 25 or more dogs a year can do anything other than improve the number of dogs that end up in an Animal Shelter.

I haven't read through the hole bill, but if puppy mills are at least held accountable for the well-being of their animals, then sobeit.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Oklahoma ranks high on the list of puppy mills. I just happened to visiit one not too far from Woodward. Although the kennels were fairly clean and I stopped by unannounced, I still found it appalling that there were hundreds of dogs, usually a male and a female, running around in 4x4 chicken wire kennels. Most seemed to be well-kept, but I'm sure if one gets sick, it is simply replaced with another, if you know what I mean.

Usually those that breed one or two litters a year are individuals that breed quality litters. I'm not one that would speak out for any kind of government regulation, but I also hear the voice of man's best friend that never has the experience of being part of a family in a puppy mill environment.

Oklahoma City is going to the 'no kill' shelter in a couple of years. But reality sings a different tune. As a way of controlling dog population and the unwanted realities of a puppy mill, I fail to see how requiring a license for
someone that sells 25 or more dogs a year can do anything other than improve the number of dogs that end up in an Animal Shelter.

I haven't read through the hole bill, but if puppy mills are at least held accountable for the well-being of their animals, then sobeit.

I don't disagree that substandard breeders need to be stopped. Like many others I started in rescue. In fact the dog I have now is from a litter of goldens that I rescued at 4 weeks.

This bill is not about punishing bad breeders, it's punitive with no incentive for breeders who do it right. No input from professionals with the exception of the OK vet association many of whom do not breed. The search and seizure portion is big concern.

As far as the "puppy mill" numbers in OK there are no facts, no numbers only estimations. Again, I'm not advocating that breeders who don't follow proper husbandry standards go unpunished but those that do should not be the ones that pay for it.
 
The search and seizure portion is big concern.
.
How about the TAX (state license) for those coming to Oklahoma to exhibit their dogs. There are 10 AKC licensed retriever field trials in Oklahoma every year. Add the hunt tests, pointer field trials, conformation shows, obedience, agility, etc. etc....:shock:.......:confused:

a very BAD idea for Oklahoma, an otherwise outdoorsman friendly state
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
How about the TAX (state license) for those coming to Oklahoma to exhibit their dogs. There are 10 AKC licensed retriever field trials in Oklahoma every year. Add the hunt tests, pointer field trials, conformation shows, obedience, agility, etc. etc....:shock:.......:confused:

a very BAD idea for Oklahoma, an otherwise outdoorsman friendly state
Don't forget the revenue those venues bring to communities. I know the OKC Kennel club show brings in over 3 million between hotels, retail and resturants.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Good question.

You asked my opinion so here it is substandard breeders are those that produce sick puppies. Doesn't matter if they produce 2 or if they produce 200. I'm not talking about the occasional puppy that turns out wrong because of mother nature. I'm talking about the people that produce puppies without doing what they can to ensure they are healthy.

The point is that HB 1332 will not do what it is intended and that is to ensure healthy puppies. It harms those who are the solution to the problem.

Shelly Kuhn
Edmond OK
 
I tend to agree on the sick puppies. I'm not in favor of a standard based on numbers.

Eric
 
How about the TAX (state license) for those coming to Oklahoma to exhibit their dogs. There are 10 AKC licensed retriever field trials in Oklahoma every year. Add the hunt tests, pointer field trials, conformation shows, obedience, agility, etc. etc....:shock:.......:confused:

a very BAD idea for Oklahoma, an otherwise outdoorsman friendly state
I am against puppy mills, but against this bill as well.

FYI, The Humane Society previously identified the seven "worst puppy mill states" as Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania.

This is the information posted on the HSUS site regarding Oklahoma which paints a biased picture by HSUS if reputable Oklahoma breeders and enthusiasts don't voice our objections why we are against this bill:
http://gateway.hsus.org/spm/bigpicture/index.cfm?state=ok
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Interesting information on the HSUS website there...... I find it interesting how there is no oversight but "INSPECTORS" found these problems and attributed to oklahoma breeders. So, maybe laws that are in place actual can work if they are used?
 
Another article mentions "that pro-animal rights vets and their allies are backing this legislation, and it is being fast-tracked for rapid passage. Rep Denny introduced an almost identical bill last year, but it was soundly defeated in the House Agriculture Committee following intensive oppostion by dog owners, the American Sporting Dog Alliance, and farmers and ranchers. This year, however, Rep Denny has cut a deal to circumvent the Agriculture Committee."

If the state Department of Agriculture would administer and enforce the law, why is HB 1332 before the House Economic Development and Financial Services??


Interesting information on the HSUS website there...... I find it interesting how there is no oversight but "INSPECTORS" found these problems and attributed to oklahoma breeders. So, maybe laws that are in place actual can work if they are used?
It states 600 USDA licensed kennels in Oklahoma. Here's a link to what living with USDA licensing means:

http://www.ncraoa.com/PAWS_Packet/LivingWithUSDA_Licensing.pdf

This link states "AKC itself conducted in 2004 over 5,000 inspections of high-volume kennels (over 6 litters/year) and kennels about which it had received complaints. Of all those inspections,
AKC only found barely one-half percent involved poor kennel conditions."
 
This is a hard one for me. The reality of puppy mills in Pennsylvania is horrible. If you go through licensing records and find a high volume breeder, you are likely to find multiple additional high volume breeders within a short distance run by other members of the same family. Sales practices routinely border on fraud. Puppies bred in kennels producing 500-1000 puppies per year are sold through the classifieds as home raised. This used to become apparent when you received AKC papers and pedigrees. However, now all of the breeders register their dogs through the "ACA" in direct response to the AKC's program to inspect high volume breeders.

The laws that have been proposed in Pennsylvania would have done little to improve the situation in puppy mills and would have put small home-based breeders out of business. In fact, only the puppy mills would have the resources needed to comply. Unfortunately, laws mean nothing without enforcement. Facilities breeding hundreds of dogs per year may only be inspected every several years. Fines, when they come are generally so small that they pale in comparison with the profits to be made.

I'm not sure that the answers lie in new laws or regulations. The first step is to improve enforcement of the laws that exist. When that is done, it may become apparent that more changes are needed. However, until the enforcement is there everything else is meaningless except to keep smaller hobby breeders from competing with the bog boys.

I do tend to think that some truth in advertising laws would be a good idea. It seems to me that sellers of dogs should have to identify the actual breeder of the pups and some details about the breeder's operation. This might include number of dogs bred by breed, ages, health clearances, pedigrees, and number of litters whelped by females, etc.

The reality is that the demand for puppies exceeds the supply of quality dogs. Buyers do not have the knowledge to make judgments about the likely health or temperaments of the puppies they are buying, and both puppies and pet purchasers will suffer from the consequences of bad breeding and socialization.

I do not believe there are any real "cures". Even now litters are being advertised here and on WRC by experienced competitors where the sire is a known EIC carrier, the dam has at least one parent that is a known carrier, but the dam does not appear to have been tested. There is no way to regulate "good breeding" and, while 30 day or six month guarantees for genetic soundness may provide an appearance of protection, they actually do nothing.

Recently a vet friend of mine had a couple come in with a new puppy (a Cavalier) they had just purchased for $1800. The pup was missing two toes on a rear foot. She pointed this out to them and said that the lameness would cause gait problems that would be likely to cause future hip and foot problems. The couple was already in love with the pup but sought to contact the breeder. No calls were answered or returned for three weeks. At that point the breeder told them that the time period for having the pup examined had expired and the guarantee was void. The vet wrote a letter indicating when the exam was performed and detailing her own efforts to reach the breeder directly without success. After a year, the situation is still unresolved. The couple still has the dog who has had a number of serious problems. The breeder continues to avoid all communication when possible and denies any responsibility at all. While we all accept claims that we are a litigious society, this couple never sued. I suspect that they are in the majority. The breeder they have been dealing with is reportedly a pure hobby breeder who shows her own dogs and would not be covered by any of the puppy mill laws.
 
Even now litters are being advertised here and on WRC by experienced competitors where the sire is a known EIC carrier,
Well the way it is written it may certainly impact Oklahoma retriever enhusiasts from purchasing quality pups and dogs on this site and others as it effectively prohibits any Oklahoma resident from buying a puppy or dog from another state, unless the breeder is licensed in Oklahoma.

So breeders and retriever enthusiasts outside Oklahoma...just take a minute and think about how many dogs you've placed in Oklahoma and other states in the past 10 years... and then step back and realize this is not just an Oklahoma issue. PETA, HSUS are well funded and relentess, and will be knocking on your door in your state next with like legislation.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Rep Denny introduced an almost identical bill last year, but it was soundly defeated in the House Agriculture Committee following intensive oppostion by dog owners, the American Sporting Dog Alliance, and farmers and ranchers. This year, however, Rep Denny has cut a deal to circumvent the Agriculture Committee."

If the state Department of Agriculture would administer and enforce the law, why is HB 1332 before the House Economic Development and Financial Services??
They are stating that it's a matter of business practice and that the state is losing revenue on the sales of puppies. In this economy the draw of more revenue is strong for our elected officials. And if they are labeled a hero in the pet/rescue community for trying to take care of "puppymills" then they get more pats on the back.

The propaganda is stating that there are over 600 puppymills. this is misleading as there are over 600 LICENSED kennels in OK. It's all about spin. Again, I'm not against putting the bad guys out of business....just don't dis the responsible breeders in the process. This is too complicated to throw out legislation that is painted with a broad brush.
 
I wonder what the GRCA would think about this. Seems like it could lead to a nasty surprise for the national specialty this year.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
I wonder what the GRCA would think about this. Seems like it could lead to a nasty surprise for the national specialty this year.
If the bill is passed the effective date at this point is November 1. By statute they have to give 90 days from the effective date so that puts it around February. The GRCA National is scheduled for October. It will have no effect on the national.

However the GRCA Board is writing to the committee as we speak.

Also the National Animal Interest Alliance has issued an alert that went out nationally.

The last time we polled the committee members it was 3 in favor, 2 oppose and 9 undecided. Sure wish I had a crystal ball.

I work on behalf of the Oklahoma AKC State Federation. I tell you it's been an interesting day between fielding questions about this bill, phone calls to legislators and getting hate mail/calls from the opposition. It sounds like the meeting will be a packed house both for and against.

The bill's author, Rep. Lee Denney called the legislative department of the AKC to complain that the "dog people" were making too many calls. (my source was the AKC legislative dept.) I suggested they tell her to quit writing stupid bills and we'd stop. Not in those exact terms but close.

Shelly
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Just a bump since the legislative committee meets today at 4:30. Still a toss up on the outcome.

A national alert was issued last night by the National Animal Interest Alliance (NAIA) led by Patti Strand who is also a board member of the AKC. It gives information and uses capwiz, an automated letter writing program. Click, click and your letter is off to the appropriate person. Link below.

HB 1332 Hearing Tomorrow - Please Act Now!
> ==========================================
> Please stand up for Oklahoma pet owners
>
> Take Action! Visit this page:
> http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/utr/1/IHJQJUFAZT/CNWVJUFKDA/2898624341]
>
> February 9, 2009
The Oklahoma Rifleman's Association has an alert on thier website http://www.oklarifle.org/

Left side, scroll to HB 1332.

Shelly Kuhn
Edmond OK
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
No word on the committee outcome on the bill yet.

They moved the time of the meeting from 4:30 to 3:30 pm. Reason that was given is the prior meeting would be finishing early....suspect but ok no problem. Lots of dog people at the capitol at noon today canvasing the committee members.

The last I heard they were a couple of amendments that were going to be proposed. One that excluded those that travel through the state for feild trials and dog shows. The other stating that deleted the term "peace officer" and replaced it with Ag Department personnel. The intention of this to have someone that deals with animal husbandry instead of law enforcement do the kennel inspections.

Due to the storms and tornados moving through the area cell phone service is sporadic.

Should be hearing something soon.

Shelly
Edmond OK
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
HB 1332 passed the committee this evening. It now goes to the House for a third reading and maybe called for a vote.

There were two new amendments attached to the bill. I have not seen the text but heard that these are not enough to make a significant improvement to the bill.

It will need to go back to legal and the amendments added before it reaches the full house.

We're more optimistic that this will not pass the house but never take this for granted. When the next text is released it will be important to see what the new amendments do to the bill over all. If it's still not workable then we start calling our own representatives.

Sorry I can't pass on good news. This is never an easy fight.

Shelly Kuhn
Edmond OK
 
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