If the AKC standard is wrong, are silver labs OK?

kindakinky · Feb 21, 2009

I've seen a lot of posts here about the AKC standard being wrong, and it should be all about performance.

Does the AKC help or hinder you in "protecting" the breed from silver labs? Why, if you consider the AKC wrong in what it does as far as conformation labs, consider the AKC right when it doesn't have a space for registering "silver" as a color for labs?

Who, exactly, determines whether a lab is "purebred" and viable for breeding?

wetland_retrievers · Feb 21, 2009

Oh Boy !!!
I'm going to get a big soda and popcorn for this !!!!

Chris Miller · Feb 21, 2009

So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice

Last Frontier Labs · Feb 21, 2009

The standard for labradors states the acceptable variations in shade for yellows and chocolates.
Chocolate Labrador Retrievers can range in color from "light chocolate to dark chocolate".

You have to look to the Weim standard to find the shades the shades "silver" folks advertise.
Short, smooth and sleek, solid color, in shades of mouse-gray to silver-gray....
The "silver labs" I have seen advertised have had distinctly Weim ears and snouts.

Pass that popcorn Baron...

precisionlabradors · Feb 21, 2009

kindakinky said:
I've seen a lot of posts here about the AKC standard being wrong, and it should be all about performance.

Does the AKC help or hinder you in "protecting" the breed from silver labs? Why, if you consider the AKC wrong in what it does as far as conformation labs, consider the AKC right when it doesn't have a space for registering "silver" as a color for labs?

Who, exactly, determines whether a lab is "purebred" and viable for breeding?

because when one is wrong in one facet, they are not wrong in every facet. saying akc standard is wrong is opinion. akc's standard on not allowing silver as a color for labs is the right thing since they're weimadors anyway.
________
NEXIUM INJURY LAWYER

Chris Atkinson · Feb 21, 2009

Maverick said:
So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice

I'll slack YOU off, you fuzzy little foreigner.

Don't mind the wires. It's just doctor's orders and so-forth.

K G · Feb 21, 2009

Maverick said:
So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice

The perfect post for this thread....:razz:

All time favorite regards,

kg

Julie R. · Feb 21, 2009

kindakinky said:
I've seen a lot of posts here about the AKC standard being wrong, and it should be all about performance.

Does the AKC help or hinder you in "protecting" the breed from silver labs? Why, if you consider the AKC wrong in what it does as far as conformation labs, consider the AKC right when it doesn't have a space for registering "silver" as a color for labs?

Who, exactly, determines whether a lab is "purebred" and viable for breeding?

Well actually anyone that refers to the "AKC Standard" is wrong. The AKC does not set or enforce standards, it is merely a registry. It is the breed clubs that set the standards for their respective breeds. AKC is a club of clubs. It is the CLUBS that put on the shows and select the judges that pick what they think best represents the breed standard. If it varies a bit from what you interpret the standard to say, you try to recreate the difference and voila, all of a sudden show Labs have Rottie looking heads, massive trunks and short legs. But that is not the fault of the AKC.

Actually the AKC used to have a space on the registration slips for Labs and Chesapeakes where you could actually write in the color. So I could've actually register a PurplePeake if I wanted back when that option existed. Again, it was the ACC that decided not to offer a fill-in blank anymore, not the AKC. I have no doubt the Lab club did the same thing.

As for the second part of your question, Labs have had a closed registry for some time. There is in fact a requirement that both parents be registered purebreds and there are DNA tests to prove it, but they are not mandatory except in some instances (older sire or dam, multiple litters, questionable parentage). The AKC does not require them on standard registrations, because it has been hemorraghing registration fees to newer, 'start up' registries where you can actually register anything you want as a Lab. Most of these start up registries were founded by people banned from the AKC--go figure! If you care anything about your breed of choice, then you would NEVER falsify records when registering a dog. It isn't hard to do (although if you're caught, you could lose all AKC privileges) so the question is not can you, but should you?

Evan · Feb 21, 2009

Julie R. said:
...so the question is not can you, but should you?

Now, there's a long overdo question!!!

EvanG

BirdHntr · Feb 22, 2009

Julie R. said:
...... so the question is not can you, but should you?

The way I was raised it would not even be a question, only one answer available.

Carl

kindakinky · Feb 23, 2009

Julie R.;404546 Well actually anyone that refers to the "AKC Standard" is wrong. The AKC does not set or enforce standards, it is merely a registry. It is the breed clubs that set the standards for their respective breeds. AKC is a club of clubs.

Yep, been there, done that, as the chair person of the committee that wrote the current U.S. Curly-Coated Retriever standard.

It is the CLUBS that put on the shows and select the judges that pick what they think best represents the breed standard. If it varies a bit from what you interpret the standard to say, you try to recreate the difference and voila, all of a sudden show Labs have Rottie looking heads, massive trunks and short legs. But that is not the fault of the AKC.

Minor point but, in all-breed shows, which is where the majority of all breeds earn their conformation wins and reputations, the AKC licenses and selects the judges, NOT the parent club. That is part of the problem because, for most conformation shows in sporting breeds, the judges are primarily selected from applicants who participated in conformation shows but not necessarily in any kind of hunting or hunt tests or field trials.

Actually the AKC used to have a space on the registration slips for Labs and Chesapeakes where you could actually write in the color. So I could've actually register a PurplePeake if I wanted back when that option existed. Again, it was the ACC that decided not to offer a fill-in blank anymore, not the AKC. I have no doubt the Lab club did the same thing.

Okay, follow-up question. If at one time, a purple Chesapeake would have been fine, why the change? If the ACC decided Ash chessies were no longer an accepted color, would you meekly agree to that since it is the ACC who decides the acceptable colors?

Not trying to create a tsunami here, folks. From experience, I can tell you it is very, very, very difficult to capture a breed's essence in mere words. Just trying to understand why certain colors became taboo in certain breeds because, for instance, all of our retriever breeds probably had more white on them when the breeds were first formulated/organized than they are allowed now.

If I was asked to describe the perfect field or conformation dog, I guess I would say all standards should use the definition of pornography from Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart:

"I know it when I see it..." :-D

If the AKC standard is wrong, are silver labs OK?

kindakinky

wetland_retrievers

Chris Miller

Last Frontier Labs

precisionlabradors

Chris Atkinson

K G

Julie R.

Evan

BirdHntr

kindakinky

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