UKC-HRC Test Question

J. Walker · Feb 21, 2009

I've been out of the dog game for a while but will have a new pup in a few months. I was reading through the HRC rules last night and it seems pretty clear that retrievers must be trained also as upland/quartering dogs in order to get titled in HRC (with the exception of the Started class.) I saw that in the Seasoned class, one of the tests had to be "a walk-up, quartering or trailing" test. I assume that is left to the judges' discretion but I don't know. The Finished class required an upland hunting test. My question is this: is there any way to know ahead of time if the test in Seasoned would be a trailing test or a walk-up/quartering test? I ask because where I live and hunt (southeast Tennessee/north Georgia), we have no pheasants, no chukkars, few quail, few grouse, etc. Bird hunting here involves doves, ducks, and geese. That's it. In other words, it seems that HRC rules stipulate that I'd have to spend considerable time training my dog to do things that he will never use in actual hunting in my area. As I result, it seems my time would be much better spent in the AKC hunt tests like I ran before. Am I correct in my conclusion or is there some club/judge flexibility in the HRC tests of which I am unaware? Thanks in advance.

Joel

Scott Sutton · Feb 21, 2009

Joel, I'm pretty new to the UKC hunt tests, but the few HRC seasoned tests I've been to in AL, TN, MS, AR, and SC have all done the walkup (usually in the land series of the test). This consited of taking your dog off lead, walking with gun in a ready to shoot position, whistle in mouth (don't ask me why I know that!), and at a predetermined spot, a gunner (usually a bird boy) will hand throw a dead duck and say 'There goes one'. At that point you blow the sit whistle, and shoot the bird at the top of the arc, then send your dog. Reheel if you have a controlled break and send your dog for the bird. If you do not keep your gun pointed in a safe direction, you will be warned or failed for gun safefy. Be shure to leave the breach open and put the gun safety on safe!

Like I said, I've only been to a few HRC tests, but the walkup is all I have seen down here. Maybe some others that are more experienced could comment on the trailing, or quartering parts of HRC seasoned tests. By the way, I've never seen any quartering, or trailing, at the finished level either. The only time I have seen that is in an upland test. Not saying that some clubs/judges don't do that down here, but it is all I have seen.

labman52738 · Feb 21, 2009

I've never seen any upland testing here in the midwest. I do know that they have a separate upland test. If you want upland testing included, run Nahra. I personally do more upland hunting, so really enjoy having a trailing test, and an upland test with steady to flush included.

wsumner · Feb 21, 2009

I attend all the HRC HTs in the New England area and have only seen quarting one time. It was part of a walk up. Dog quartered a small area. At the end a dead bird was thrown from a winger. All other seasoned level tests have been with a walk up only. Never seen any trailing in HRC.

Dogtrainer4God · Feb 21, 2009

I have never seen a trailing or upland test at a seasoned or Finished test before. Somebody has probably used it as part of the test in the past, I have just never seen it. The walk-up is the main one that is used.
Also, regarding the "requirement" of an upland test in finished,
I quote directly from the rulebook:

At the option of the Judges, the hunt MAY include an upland game test. If an upland test is to be run, this option MUST be announced in the club's premium.

Hope this helps!

J. Walker · Feb 21, 2009

After reading the rules again, it's pretty ambiguous at the Finished level. Seasoned says "The hunt will have five (5) tests. These five tests shall consist of at least the following: (1)...(3)a walk-up or tracking or quartering test..." The rules don't clarify as to whether this needs to be announced prior to the testing date so that's a point of concern. A walk-up wouldn't be a big deal and neither would tracking as steadiness and tracking are things I'd train for anyway. What would be a bummer is showing up at a test and a judge from Kansas or Iowa, where pheasant hunting is big, decides on a quartering test instead of a tracking test, for instance.

However, for Finished, it says "The hunt will have at least four tests. (emphasis added) These four tests shall consist of the following: (1)...(2)..., etc. At the option of the judges, the hunt may include an upland game test. If an upland test is to be run, this option must be listed on the Club's Hunting Retriever Premium List." The rules then go on to give guidelines to judges for quartering tests in Finished. So I guess part of my question was answered by the book but, in all fairness, it was about midnight when I read it before.

Still, this makes it sound like a person could be preparing for a specific test due to the proximity and then maybe a judge gets replaced right before the premiums get prepared and suddenly you've got an upland test on your hands or no test at all. All of that said, I've never witnessed an HRC test. I've only been to AKC tests and trials as well as NAHRA tests.

Kevin Hannah · Feb 21, 2009

wsumner said:
I attend all the HRC HTs in the New England area and have only seen quarting one time. It was part of a walk up. Dog quartered a small area. At the end a dead bird was thrown from a winger. All other seasoned level tests have been with a walk up only. Never seen any trailing in HRC.

I was there as well for that one, it is the ONLY time I have ever seen an upland in a seasoned test and the only time I have even heard of one.

My guess is after walking 100 yards (each way) up and down the field over 20 times it will likely be the last on those judges will set up as well

Kevin - who likes to judge from his chair

J. Walker · Feb 21, 2009

Kevin Hannah said:
I was there as well for that one, it is the ONLY time I have ever seen an upland in a seasoned test and the only time I have even heard of one.

My guess is after walking 100 yards (each way) up and down the field over 20 times it will likely be the last on those judges will set up as well

Kevin - who likes to judge from his chair

Good point. With my luck, I'd get husband and wife triathletes as judges.;-)

Cheeko · Feb 21, 2009

Scott Sutton said:
Joel, I'm pretty new to the UKC hunt tests, but the few HRC seasoned tests I've been to in AL, TN, MS, AR, and SC have all done the walkup (usually in the land series of the test). This consited of taking your dog off lead, walking with gun in a ready to shoot position, whistle in mouth (don't ask me why I know that!), and at a predetermined spot, a gunner (usually a bird boy) will hand throw a dead duck and say 'There goes one'. At that point you blow the sit whistle, and shoot the bird at the top of the arc, then send your dog. Reheel if you have a controlled break and send your dog for the bird. If you do not keep your gun pointed in a safe direction, you will be warned or failed for gun safefy. Be shure to leave the breach open and put the gun safety on safe!

Like I said, I've only been to a few HRC tests, but the walkup is all I have seen down here. Maybe some others that are more experienced could comment on the trailing, or quartering parts of HRC seasoned tests. By the way, I've never seen any quartering, or trailing, at the finished level either. The only time I have seen that is in an upland test. Not saying that some clubs/judges don't do that down here, but it is all I have seen.

Scott that is all I have seen in the south.I think that the Judges keep the Upland test different from the seasoned and finished.I have been to a Judges and Handlers seminar and out of all the video we watched they on used a walkup.They keep it that way i think because its a seperate title.But i could be wrong.

Thomas D · Feb 21, 2009

Walk up is required in Seasoned, but not required in Finished.

Upland (quartering and sit/stay to flush) is usually a separate event most of the time. However, judges have the option.

Judy Chute · Feb 22, 2009

NAHRA...has quartering (dead birds planted), trailing in it's hunt tests. Sounds like this might be what you would enjoy...as AKC does not offer any of this. (that we have encountered, at least)

UKC HRC...I have yet to encounter trailing or quartering, with the one exception that is mentioned in a previous post by wsummer. May have been the same test...the similar situation we had was some time ago. (We may now, though, after this thread!..)

UKC HRC Upland test does use live birds for the retriever to flush.

birdboy · Feb 22, 2009

J. Walker said:
I saw that in the Seasoned class, one of the tests had to be "a walk-up, quartering or trailing" test. I assume that is left to the judges' discretion but I don't know. The Finished class required an upland hunting test. My question is this: is there any way to know ahead of time if the test in Seasoned would be a trailing test or a walk-up/quartering test? I ask because where I live and hunt (southeast Tennessee/north Georgia), Joel

Joel, The Finished test does not require an upland test. That is left up to the judges and will be posted on the premium. That way you would know ahead of time for finished. As far as seasoned goes, it is typicaly just a walk-up. I live in Georgia and run HRC test all over the state as well as in South Carolina, and have yet to see anything other than a walk-up in a seasoned test. If that is something you are concerned about, I would try to contact the judges that are listed on the premium for the test you are signing up for. Just a thought. Good luck with the new pup.

Margo Ellis · Feb 22, 2009

You can see it but it is highly unlikely unless they post in the premium that it will happen. I have judged with Kevin H. and I will say that if he can judge all aspects of the test "FROM HIS CHAIR" he will. :-D

No walking for him! LOL

You will see the walk up for sure in Seasoned.

Keith Stroyan · Feb 22, 2009

Judy Chute said:
NAHRA...has quartering (dead birds planted), trailing in it's hunt tests.

NAHRA has trails in Hunter, Intermediate, and Senior.

Dead birds are allowed in the Intermediate Upland test. (No flush.)

Dead and live are allowed in Senior and there has to be a live flush.
==
I haven't run HRC in a while, but in the course of getting 5 HRCH's, I never saw an upland with Finished. (I also ran the separate Upland tests, but there I never saw a trail.) It seems like once they got the separate Upland tests, no one did them with Finished.

Uncle Bill · Feb 22, 2009

An upland WAS a part of the Finished when I first started in HRC. (circa 1990) However when the entries filled the test to max numbers (30 now), it became a time problem getting it in.

Around that time, it was decided to make the Upland a seperate test, which it is. Since seperating the Upland from the Finished, I've never seen any attempts at including a full upland series in Finished, but we still do an occasional walkup as part of land or water series. And we have a 'form' of tracking, when a particular test involves a cripple retrieve.

Not sure why HRC leaves the upland portion in the Finished regs. Eventually someone will suggest removing it, and thus eliminating lots of concern and confusion over nothing. With the Finished level almost always filled with entries, involving an Upland in the normal weekend test is not likely to happen. As I recall, about the only time we got them in, was with a field of a dozen or fewer. It's quite time consuming.

Needless to say, if your ambitions include running the Grand in the future, your dog will need to be familier with and accomplished at doing an Upland test, so by all means, train for them, and enter an HRC Upland test. They usually allow you to get two legs of your title at one weekend test.

UB

dalecindy · Feb 22, 2009

I have never seen an upland test or quartering test in a Finished test. The last Mater test that I was in however, did have a quartering test in it. 1 week ago. The judges scented an area and we walked the dog to the area off lead at heal. Then we had the dog quarter in the scented area. Duck came out in front and high. Had to whistle stop the dog, and upon release, send to get the duck. No one there had seen this before in a master.

HRCH Missy SH (1 away from MH!!!)

Judy Chute · Feb 22, 2009

Judy Chute said:
NAHRA...has quartering (dead birds planted), trailing in it's hunt tests. Sounds like this might be what you would enjoy...as AKC does not offer any of this. (that we have encountered, at least)

UKC HRC...I have yet to encounter trailing or quartering, with the one exception that is mentioned in a previous post by wsummer. May have been the same test...the similar situation we had was some time ago. (We may now, though, after this thread!..)

UKC HRC Upland test does use live birds for the retriever to flush.

...just to add to my original post, ...successful quartering and trailing takes a great deal of self control by the dog ...especially one with a great nose that likes to "honor his nose"

This is a real test of .."team work". A pleasure to watch a nice working team.

I think that it is sometimes easier for a team to pass..if the dog is not really caring about picking up a bird or not. Ok...will pick it up because you want me to...and sometimes not really quartering (as in hunting it up) but just casting back and forth and happens to run into a bird. Have actually seen this. Kind of a killer..when one has a dog with a great nose and really does hunt them up.. But....harder to keep control of a dog with that nice attitude :roll: training, training....

Hey.."M"...those were they days at the "Bog", right??

Miriam Wade · Feb 22, 2009

To the original poster: My dog was old when HRC came to my area and we only ran at the Finished level. It was a lot of fun and we enjoyed it-she had 5 passes when we stopped. In the tests we ran-an upland series was never a part of any of them.

We ran NAHRA the year she was going for her AKC Senior. There was a NAHRA test in a neighboring state and we showed up to watch and were encouraged to enter. We ran Intermediate and she was fine on the marks & blind (only a short water blind in the Intermediate level of NAHRA) & upland-no flush. When it came to running tne trail I opted to scratch since we'd never seen one. Long story short-I was encouraged to let her have a go at it and from that day forward it was her favorite part of running tests. She was 5/6 in NAHRA Intermediate.

Upland is EASY to train for and I'd recommend (if NAHRA or HRC are the venues you choose) finding someone to help you. It's as simple as scenting a field and letting the dog do what they were born to do. Dizzying and planting pigeons or chukkars and pheasants adds to the excitement.

Bottom line is that the dogs LOVE it. I have different goals for my current dog, but when he's older and we're just going for a fun factor-upland is going to be one of the ways I pay him back.

M

Miriam Wade · Feb 22, 2009

Judy Chute said:
...just to add to my original post, ...successful quartering and trailing takes a great deal of self control by the dog ...especially one with a great nose that likes to "honor his nose" This is a real test of .."team work". A pleasure to watch a nice working team.

I think that it is sometimes easier for a team to pass..if the dog is not really caring about picking up a bird or not. Ok...will pick it up because you want me to...and sometimes not really quartering (as in hunting it up) but just casting back and forth and happens to run into a bird. Have actually seen this. Kind of a killer..when one has a dog with a great nose and really does hunt them up.. But....harder to keep control of a dog with that nice attitude :roll: training, training....

Hey.."M"...those were they days at the "Bog", right??

Hey Judy-

I didn't see this before I posted. I miss those days more than I can say. Guessing there's a bog up in Heaven & Jack is running Kate!

M

Judy Chute · Feb 22, 2009

Miriam Wade said:
Hey Judy-

I didn't see this before I posted. I miss those days more than I can say. Guessing there's a bog up in Heaven & Jack is running Kate!

M

Sadly....the Bog is no longer easy to access for training. Our club (Saco River) worked really hard to reclaim fields, improve the road in..remember that road in?? yikes!!

Club had fill brought in....as in big rock (more like boulders) to fill the mud holes...purchased the lumber for the State to rebuild that little bridge, over that narrow outlet..(that controlls the water level of the entire Bog), plus wood duck house cleaning and replacing as needed in winter by snow mobile..

Wanted to post the site...showing The Brownfield Bog pictures from Saco River HRC site..but the site has changed...beautiful pictures no longer there. Too bad, as that is how it all started. Judges could not believe that we had such a place to train and trial..

Yes....I imagine Jack is in his camo surrounded by his beloved Golden Retrievers...hunting away!

Judy

UKC-HRC Test Question

J. Walker

Scott Sutton

labman52738

wsumner

Dogtrainer4God

J. Walker

Kevin Hannah

J. Walker

Cheeko

Thomas D

Judy Chute

birdboy

Margo Ellis

Keith Stroyan

Uncle Bill

dalecindy

Judy Chute

Miriam Wade

Miriam Wade

Judy Chute

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