Stationary Bird Boy???

Kenneth Niles Bora · Mar 23, 2009

Hello All,
A question.
My Dad has offered to toss birds for me. He does not move around very well. He is willing to go out into a field and sit in a chair, but not move around to multiple stations. Now I have a couple fields that I train it that are very large. In theory I could plop him in one spot put out a scarecrow and bumper boy a ways away from him for a second gunning station and circle him with a dog, or two. So, what’s the question you ask? Would 4 separate marks run from 4 corners of a field to it’s center, each over 150 yards with rolling terrain changes, be in the dogs mind repeating the same mark? Or 4 different marks?

Thank You all
Ken Bora

Guest · Mar 23, 2009

Can he drive a 4-wheeler/quad? (do you have one?) That's how we do our "walking singles" -- we just zip to each one...

Kenneth Niles Bora · Mar 23, 2009

No do not own a 4 wheeler, but the fields in question are no driving allowed anyway.

Guest · Mar 23, 2009

ok, so back to the original question... If you put someone in the middle and ran from four corners of a large field, it would be four different marks simply because the line would be so different.

The question would be whether all four of them would be USEFUL... If there's a wind, then at some point if you had four distinct lines, the wind would probably be in your face for one of them...

I don't think it's a bad idea in the right field. You can get away with it probably in most cases.

-K (who thanks God that we can drive all over every field we train on...)

Jim Person · Mar 23, 2009

Hi Ken, You don't always have to put the marks in the middle. You could use parts of the field. You don't always have to use all of the field at once. Set up a couple marks like you said , one with your dad and one with a BB, then move your location for 2 or maybe 3 looks at it. bring 2 dogs and alternate working and honor.. that itself is great training.... Work with what ya got. Jim

2tall · Mar 23, 2009

How about this. I don't know what level your dogs are at, but as a regular drill we do a mark from one position, and run blinds around it. You could throw one mark, run one blind, change positions and do something similar. You have to find a way to let dad participate! (sorry, not very detailed, but I guess you know way better than me the concept here.)

Kenneth Niles Bora · Mar 24, 2009

Kristie Wilder said:
-K (who thanks God that we can drive all over every field we train on...)

This time of year Kristie, with the frost coming out of the ground. Very few fields may be driven in, even with 4-wheelers. This is the time all the farmers wait and watch and hope to be the first on their fields. The transition from frozen solid to normal ground involves a couple weeks when the top 4 inches or more is like pudding. You remember frozen ground don’t you?

Ken Bora

moscowitz · Mar 24, 2009

Ken I get help from one person. I don't look to set up several series. What I do is to put that person at the key mark where it counts. Long Middle bird retired. Indented mark retired and so on. I like the technical series over many nontechnical series.

Guest · Mar 24, 2009

Ken Bora said:
This time of year Kristie, with the frost coming out of the ground. Very few fields may be driven in, even with 4-wheelers. This is the time all the farmers wait and watch and hope to be the first on their fields. The transition from frozen solid to normal ground involves a couple weeks when the top 4 inches or more is like pudding. You remember frozen ground don’t you?

Ken Bora

Yeah, but not in terms of dog training, which i didn't do til I moved down here... We're just generally spoiled. I remember when I was looking at going to the MN in California and there was some potential training property where we would park on a road and hike in a few hundred yards. That's just too inefficient for me! (LOL, but I know in some areas you just have to deal with that) But I guess that's why I'm not a skinny trainer.

-K

Gun_Dog2002 · Mar 24, 2009

The meat of the mark is the factors getting there. I voted 4 different marks. Course I would suggest not doing this everyday as I could see this leading to potentially creating a temptation to returning to old falls.

/Paul

Bridget Bodine · Mar 24, 2009

I have always wonder this same question. I have a Thunder bird 8 shooter and wondered if I could circle it for 8 different scenarios. Could help to build confidence with the varying factors???

Scott Adams · Mar 24, 2009

I don't think I would take multiple marks off of one station in this particular scenario.
Reasons
1) There are too many other good teaching opportunities with one thrower in the field.

2) I believe the dog will recognize the mark as being from the same station as you move around.
3) You would teach undisciplined hunts since you are blurring the area of fall with his previous hunts and old scent.

4) 1 good mark is worth alot more than 3 or 4 questionable ones.

When you have 1 gunner you can set other chairs as diversions to teach focus. Use that 1 gunner in a multitude of ways, to teach Mark/blind skills.

Anyway those are my thoughts.

Aussie · Mar 25, 2009

Must ponder this, as you may be teaching to return to old falls, but then again. The Aycock/Farmer DVD showed a drill, which Judy set up also in Australia to aid in keeping a dog in the area of fall.

It depends I supppose."Trust what you see". Check responses.

john fallon · Mar 25, 2009

It will be 4 marks at least to the AOF with the dog having an increasingly better perception of where the bird is within the AOF after the second one, or the first, with a hunt on the first one.

john

Kenneth Niles Bora · Mar 25, 2009

Sighttosea said:
I have always wonder this same question. I have a Thunder bird 8 shooter and wondered if I could circle it for 8 different scenarios. Could help to build confidence with the varying factors???

Hmmm, I do not think I would do this with a remote launcher. With a person and a radio I could have an infinite variety of throws. So my running line and the spot the duck hits the ground would change for every mark. It is just my Dad in the chair that would remain stationary. And not thinking of doing this every day in the same field. But if Dad wants to help in a limited way I’ll work him like a sled dog. Well, an old ornery foot bandaged complaining at all times sled dog.;-)

Guest · Mar 25, 2009

Scott Adams said:
I don't think I would take multiple marks off of one station in this particular scenario.
Reasons
1) There are too many other good teaching opportunities with one thrower in the field.

2) I believe the dog will recognize the mark as being from the same station as you move around.
3) You would teach undisciplined hunts since you are blurring the area of fall with his previous hunts and old scent.

4) 1 good mark is worth alot more than 3 or 4 questionable ones.

When you have 1 gunner you can set other chairs as diversions to teach focus. Use that 1 gunner in a multitude of ways, to teach Mark/blind skills.

Anyway those are my thoughts.

I had considered #3, but then I thought if you're only throwing for one dog, how much distracting scent could there be?

I guess it really comes down to the quality the picture the dog is seeing. If you move the line and the PICTURE is DISTINCTLY different, I think you avoid #2.

But these are certainly good considerations. I think it just really comes down to the field you're in whether you can turn it into something useful.

We would only throw marks just to "throw marks" when we're doing therapy. But I wouldn't set one gunner up and throw a bunch of marks just to throw them. They'd have to have some purpose to them, whatever it might be...

An extreme example of where it COULD work would be if dad was up on a hill with a valley on either side and you moved from one side then to the total opposite. It would be almost impossible for the dog to assign the fall area with the previous mark it did from the other side of the other valley...

-K

-K

Stationary Bird Boy???

is it the same mark?

is it the same mark?

It is 4 different marks

Kenneth Niles Bora

Guest

Kenneth Niles Bora

Guest

Jim Person

2tall

Kenneth Niles Bora

moscowitz

Guest

Gun_Dog2002

Bridget Bodine

Scott Adams

Aussie

john fallon

Kenneth Niles Bora

Guest

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