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Clint Watts

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am considering starting up a business and I don't have a clue on how to start one. Here is what I have:

1. Love for Labs.
2. Desire to help improve the breed.
3. Black female lab (EIC clear, CNM not ran yet but parents are clear).
4. House and back yard for her.

Things I need:

1. Kennel Name (do I just pick one? What if that kennel name is taken?).
2. Do I need to get a business liscense? Never started a business, I don't know.
3. How to pick a stud to breed with?

More questions will pop up along the way. Any help from this panel is a plus.
Thanks.

Goose
 
#4 ·
So I'm a little confused. Are you meerley looking to breed your female a few time and affix a kennel name to the pups, or are you actually looking to take on other peoples dogs for boarding, training, etc.

If all your looking to do is have a few litters with your female, then nothing special is required other than a whole lot of knowledge on how to do it right. That topic has been discussed ad nauseam here.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Frenchy said:
If all your looking to do is have a few litters with your female, then nothing special is required other than a whole lot of knowledge on how to do it right. That topic has been discussed ad nauseam here.
Click to expand...
This is what I am looking to do at first to test the waters. Might just say hell no after the first litter, but I do want to do it right. I plan on using the experience on this forum to guide me.

She is only 15 months old and I still have a way to go. If I was smart I would probably take Lester's advice... Don't. But if you don't try you will never know.

So just breed for now Mr. Bora and don't worry, I deal with all kinds of poop in my regular job. My wife would be home at all times with the puppies and if she had to leave my mom would fill in.

Thank you all for the advice, so how do you go about picking the right stud dog?
 
#6 · (Edited)
That is really just breeding then. Say you have 7 pups, and that you can get 1000 from them. You would have too pay 1500-2500 for a solid stud to get 1000 (that is if your bitch is well breed). Plus you will spend 2000.00 on all the care products, vet bills..ect.. so you are luck to take home 3000.00 That is if you sell them all at full price, which can be hard. Doing that once a year is not really a business.

In the end there are only two ways to make a successful pro Kennel. One, is prove yourself to a point where you become a brand. That will require multiple championships at one game or another. You can call that the Lardy way. He maked money on training and devleoping dogs and transitioned it over to books, seminars...ect.. the second way is to develop a brand. This take alot of money.You have to produce good dogs, have very nice grounds and advertise like hell. The Is kind of the Wildrose way. They make there money on selling dogs. They have 5-10 bitches and sell pups to the high end hunter/amature. You have to advertise in amgs like retriever jounral and double gun...ect... this takes thousands up front.

In the end there are only a hand full of kennels, what maybe 100-250 in the country where the owner makes good money. I am talking out of my butt but I think it is a good guess. There are more then 1000 full time kennels and I would bet that only 10% of them make more money then they could make doing something else.

I agree with the above, train and work you dog because you love them, breed them because you want a pup out of you current dog or if you just think it would be fun. Along the way if you make some money to off set some of your expense great. Also picking a kennel name and breeding and naming your dogs under that name is kind of cool. Especially when someone else carries that name one with one of your pups. So do that.

Also starting a formal business for that kennel can be a nice tax write off. You have to be careful but if you get a business license and keep records you can write off money you invest in that business. Say you spend 8,000.00 and only make 3000.00 on the litter. Then you can write off the 5,000.00. Again, be careful. Try to write off to much or to often and you will have IRS issues.
 
#8 ·
Be very carefull writing off kennel expenses as a business unless it truly is a business. My understanding is that you must show a profit one year out of every three to be able to write off the losses. If the write off is important then discuss it with an accountant before taking the plunge.
Mark L.
 
#9 ·
What does your female bring to the table?
 
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#10 ·
I'm really glad you are asking questions and learning - that is the first step.

First you need to wait until she is 2 and get her OFA hips, elbows, and patellas done. (have you read on this list about the different surgeries and injuries some of the dogs have had?) You should also have someone who really knows conformation to go over your dog and tell you her strengths and weaknesses since you would want to select a stud that could compliment her.

You also need CERF eye clearance done and whatever other clearances labs need. You should also research her pedigree - how many health problems has her sire and dam produced? What type of temperments and working ability?

Does she have any titles yet? Most of our dogs are great in training - testing shows us what they are made of under pressure.

Have you researched what labs sell for in your area? $1,000 seems high - but I don't know labs. The economy is way down and I know people who have very well bred dogs who can not sell puppies or are having to take dogs back as their owners are no longer able to keep them.

That is what a good breeder does - follow the litter for their whole life and will take the dog back if the owner can not keep it. A good breeder requires clearances be done on all the puppies so you know what your bitch is producing. Even on pet puppies - you need to know if their hips/elbows/eyes are good.

Its fun to sit and imagine having puppies and making money - but most good breeders actually don't make money - they do it because they love their breed.

Volunteer with the local animal shelter and take in a pregnant bitch and whelp a litter to see how much work it is. Have you read different posts on this list about litters - puppies sick and even dying, your bitch could die too of complications. Volunteer with the local lab rescue to see how to properly place dogs in good homes, and see how many labs despirately need homes already.

We all think our dogs are the greatest. But even if they are many should never be bred. I have owned 4 intact male flat coats over 20 years and have never bred. I now have one that I would consider breeding and he is 7 years old! - he was ranked #7 in the country last year in breed (pretty show dog stuff) he has obedience and field titles, all of his littermates have their health clearances, every dog in his pedigree has working and show titles, he just won the working retriever class at our national specialty and made 2 of 3 cuts in BOB at the specialty.

So you have a lot of time to learn things since your girl is only 15 months old. and there is A LOT to learn and consider. You are doing the right thing in asking questions and learning - that is the first step in doing it right. Best of luck.
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
badbullgator said:
What does your female bring to the table?
Click to expand...
I have owned two labs prior to this one and they were good pets. Maya is a great pet and a high desire hunter. She is out of:

The Cptn's Sierra Shadow Ale MH QAA Out of FC NAN-Dool Elwood Blues and Sommits "The Little Rascal" MH

and

Xtreme Outdoors Lacy out of FC-AFC Calumet's Super Sonic and HRCH Bry-Wyn's Qwest For Gold MH

Notable dogs in her pedigree are:

Lean Mac - both sides
Hattie McBunn
Storms Riptide Star

and many more FC's.

I have entered her in a couple Jr. Hunt Test where she made it to the second round and then failed (my fault not hers), so no titles as of yet. But there will be.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
fishduck said:
Be very carefull writing off kennel expenses as a business unless it truly is a business. My understanding is that you must show a profit one year out of every three to be able to write off the losses. If the write off is important then discuss it with an accountant before taking the plunge.
Mark L.
Click to expand...
I live in California, of course I need a write off. LMAO
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
TN_LAB said:
Figure out your target market and find a stud that would appeal to that customer.

In case you have a little trouble selling a couple pups...How big is your yard? :D
Click to expand...
She has a decent FC chocolate pedigree, so I was thinking of looking at a choco stud. I plan on running the vetgen color coat test to see if she has the choco gene. If she has it who is the hot dog in the choco market?
 
#16 ·
goosehunter51 said:
Thats good to know, I will definitely discuss with my CPA. Thanks for the advise.
Click to expand...
I thought of making a "business" out of my home kennel. Have a small office in the barn tack room, where I hang framed pedigrees (official appearance), a coiled up water hose instead of a water cooler, and a 7 year old Dell (very business-like, a computer!) to serve as a paperweight for all the IRS forms I'll get around to sometime later. I think a home office needs a separate phone line to satisfy the IRS, I hope my motorola charging base counts.

Joking aside, I pondered declaring my efforts at training and campaigning a couple of dogs as a business, not to MAKE money, but to help defray some of the costs incurred by this hobby. The guy we bought our farm from raised and raced horses as a hobby, but as soon as he won some money (to show a profit) he declared a business and reaped terrific tax rewards. My CPA frowned at this notion with the kennel, stating that the IRS essentially regards all such claims as scams, until painfully proven otherwise.
 
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#17 ·
goosehunter51 said:
I have owned two labs prior to this one and they were good pets. Maya is a great pet and a high desire hunter. She is out of:

The Cptn's Sierra Shadow Ale MH QAA Out of FC NAN-Dool Elwood Blues and Sommits "The Little Rascal" MH

and

Xtreme Outdoors Lacy out of FC-AFC Calumet's Super Sonic and HRCH Bry-Wyn's Qwest For Gold MH

Notable dogs in her pedigree are:

Lean Mac - both sides
Hattie McBunn
Storms Riptide Star

and many more FC's.

I have entered her in a couple Jr. Hunt Test where she made it to the second round and then failed (my fault not hers), so no titles as of yet. But there will be.
Click to expand...

I just bought 3 pups, line bred on Lean Mac, QAA MH stud, HRCH dam.
$300 each. I bought them to train as gun dogs and sell as started dogs. Silly to fool with raising pups when decent bred pups can be bought like this. And these type sales happen all the time on the last 2 or 3 from a whole leot of litters. You might get a decent $ on the first couple. but when they get 9 weeks or more, you will almost pay to get rid of them.
You will never even cover your expenses as a breeder unless you are FC AFC on at least one side and have something really special on the other.
 
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