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RE: Editorial: 'Live Kill' Trials Are Shocking

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#21 ·
Do you really think you can train a hunting dog with rubber ducks? Many dogs will pick up rubber ducks, bumpers and even dead ducks, but will shy away from anything moving or making noise. Our hunting dogs are at their most valuable when they can retrieve crippled game. Worry about breeding dogs who only get titles on rubber birds is the big reason so many people bailed on NAHRA a few years back.

TBell's suggestion of moving the birds to a private pond somewhere would be nice IF there were a private pond. If there were a private pond somewhere close by where we could bring ducks, we would be there ourselves, running our dogs, instead of dealing with all of the whacknuts living in the area.

We live in the NE people, we don't have acres and acres of land available for use. Most of the areas we have are state WMA or in the case of WestThompson, a federal flood control dam. When the average building lot (that's maybe 1/2 acre) costs $100-$200K, where do you think the clubs will find adequate acreage to purchase for field grounds. Even if all of the clubs got together we could not afford to purchase adequate acreage around here. And then there are all those pesky rules from the DEC, DEP, DCR or whatever state agency happens to want a few extra bucks.

Our ducks are never left unattended. The person we purchase our birds from stays with them the whole weekend. The birds are not left anywhere near where the dogs are running. The truck or trailer is taken someplace shady and as far away as possible. We contact them when we need birds and they come down. The dead birds are placed in large, screen covered boxes and are kept out of the public eye as much as possible. We don't expect to eat these birds because after even 2 hours in the heat, they are not edible. Our clubs all factor 2 birds per entered dog. We don't reuse birds that are bad and don't leave birds sitting around in piles. They are either placed in a covered box or put in a bag.

I guess I wouldn't be so pissy about this if most of the people who are so horrified didn't go to the grocery store regularly and pick out a nice steak or pork loin without a thought for how it got there.

Regards
Dawn
 
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#22 ·
Perhaps I'm the only one with this observation....first there's this...

dnf777 said:
I remember when the Heggins (sp?), Pennsylvania fund-raising pigeon shoot was banned.....
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...followed by this...

.......Pa is a very hunter-friendly state to start with...
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Is that contradictory or ironic?

kg
 
#23 ·
Using the thread to promote your Bango product ? Way off topic. IMO .
Outdoors channel ,Versus and others show birds being shot and retrieved , big game shot and a blood trail followed , and so on .To say our events are not televised because of the killing is incorrect , IMO .
All life ends with death . If not for the success of the hunter , man would have died out long ago .Very few parts of the world allow food to grow year round to provide sustenance .Electricity and refrigeration were probably not available during the course of evolution .Just guessing .
The letter writer was not so offended that they bothered to find someone in charge to register a complaint .We must fight fire with fire . Public land is PUBLIC . WE are part of that public , pay taxes , etc.
If they wear leather , eat meat , fish ,poultry or vegetables (veggies need air,food ,water , protection from the elements and are killed before we eat them ) then they are one of us and do not even know it .:rolleyes:
Someone from the club should offer to meet the author over lunch . If they order anything besides water w/o lemon , call Fox News .
 
#24 ·
K G said:
I'm guessing the suppliers truck was parked at the only place it could be...in full sight of any passers-by....

PPP regards,

kg
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And most likely in one of the only places with shade in that whole place. Temps last weekend were approaching 100 degrees. The area is used most every weekend in the summer for tests or trials, mainly because there are very few to no other viable options in New England.

I am actually surprised that it took this long for the public to complain. As Paul said, virtually every series is interrupted by some nitwit walking or biking through the middle of the test despite the "LIVE AMMO IN USE" signs posted everywhere.........

The dumbing down of America is progressing at full speed.......
 
#27 ·
Paul-

I stand corrected. I shouldn't have assumed that the birds were left unattended.

However, the rest of my message remains. Far too often we act too casual about the birds and this plays into the hands of the AR groups.

Eric
 
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#28 ·
Bubba said:
Please let's not give this JO (AKA texasbirdhunter) another opportunity to shill his junk.

Time to lock sheilds regards

Bubba
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Bubba you are way out of line here, everyone knows what "JO" means. i am surprised this thread hasn't been locked, but you are a long time vet here and i imagine you do get some "preferences".

like it or not, texasbirdhunter is spot on target. killing birds for the sport of a dog just picking it up is going to rankle the rank and file animals rights folks and we will eventually have to tweak our methods accordingly.


private land or not, all i have to say is look at HRC - gone from live shackled birds to euthanasia like AKC. and i NEVER ran a HRC (3 HRCH's under my belt) event on public land.

you may not like the idea of running a HT or FT with rubber ducks, and neither do i, but its a stark reality in the not to distant future, and you have no right to lash out on texasbirdhunter for that - especially with that language.

apologies due on your part regards....

David Gibson
 
#29 ·
david gibson said:
Bubba you are way out of line here, everyone knows what "JO" means. i am surprised this thread hasn't been locked, but you are a long time vet here and i imagine you do get some "preferences".

like it or not, texasbirdhunter is spot on target. killing birds for the sport of a dog just picking it up is going to rankle the rank and file animals rights folks and we will eventually have to tweak our methods accordingly.


private land or not, all i have to say is look at HRC - gone from live shackled birds to euthanasia like AKC. and i NEVER ran a HRC (3 HRCH's under my belt) event on public land.

you may not like the idea of running a HT or FT with rubber ducks, and neither do i, but its a stark reality in the not to distant future, and you have no right to lash out on texasbirdhunter for that - especially with that language.

apologies due on your part regards....

David Gibson
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Who cares if the antis are upset ? ?? ? Not me . Let them start throwing blood on some shoppers at the local market . I pray I'm shopping THAT
day ....
And Bubba's post merely emphasized that this thread is no place to promote a product .
If its worth having , its worth fighting for .Like the first and second amendment ....He said what he said ,I said what I said , And you said what you said .If Bubba called me a JO I would be thrilled , although for no morally correct reason .....
Rubber ducks are for the kids bath regards........
 
#31 ·
Bubba said:
Please let's not give this JO (AKA texasbirdhunter) another opportunity to shill his junk.

Time to lock sheilds regards
Click to expand...
david gibson said:
like it or not, texasbirdhunter is spot on target. killing birds for the sport of a dog just picking it up is going to rankle the rank and file animals rights folks and we will eventually have to tweak our methods accordingly.

you may not like the idea of running a HT or FT with rubber ducks, and neither do i, but its a stark reality in the not to distant future, and you have no right to lash out on texasbirdhunter for that - especially with that language.
Click to expand...
I agree with Bubba. This was an inappropriate, and frankly an unwelcomed thread for texasbirdhunter to try to plug his product.

And as for the "stark reality" that may or may not be true. It may also be a "stark reality" that hunting will increasingly be banned, our second amendment right to keep and bear arms will be greatly infringed or completely discarded, and we may become a socialist nation, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't fight tooth and nail to prevent or delay these things.
 
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#32 ·
Terri said:
Could the clubs afford a tent and a sign? The tent to keep the birds out of view to the public and a sign that would say no trespassing, will prosecute.

Cheaper than buying land.

Terri
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I was thinking the same thing about the tent, but it may eliminate a much needed breeze.
 
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#33 ·
I've never been to an HT or FT but what if instead of just piling the birds up and discarding them the club set up a grill and breasted and cleaned the birds on the spot and cooked them? Maybe throw together some kabobs or somthin? Like I said not a trialer but it might make the situation seem less like a bunch of folks out just shootin ducks.
Just spit ballin
Jim
 
#34 ·
david gibson said:
Bubba you are way out of line here, everyone knows what "JO" means. i am surprised this thread hasn't been locked, but you are a long time vet here and i imagine you do get some "preferences".

like it or not, texasbirdhunter is spot on target. killing birds for the sport of a dog just picking it up is going to rankle the rank and file animals rights folks and we will eventually have to tweak our methods accordingly.


private land or not, all i have to say is look at HRC - gone from live shackled birds to euthanasia like AKC. and i NEVER ran a HRC (3 HRCH's under my belt) event on public land.

you may not like the idea of running a HT or FT with rubber ducks, and neither do i, but its a stark reality in the not to distant future, and you have no right to lash out on texasbirdhunter for that - especially with that language.

apologies due on your part regards....

David Gibson
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1. Either way the duck ends up dead. Do you normally euthanize your ducks while hunting before having your dog pick them up or do you shoot them? HRC pounds it's chest constantly about being a "realistic days hunt". In my reality I shoot duck, dog retrieves duck.

2. I have never seen an AKC test where ducks were euthanized.

Live shot flyer regards,
 
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#35 ·
HuntinDawg said:
I agree with Bubba. This was an inappropriate, and frankly an unwelcomed thread for texasbirdhunter to try to plug his product.

And as for the "stark reality" that may or may not be true. It may also be a "stark reality" that hunting will increasingly be banned, our second amendment right to keep and bear arms will be greatly infringed or completely discarded, and we may become a socialist nation, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't fight tooth and nail to prevent or delay these things.
Click to expand...
dude, comparing killing a bird just to have a dog pick it up to withering away our freedoms to keep and bear arms is a huge stretch.

did not HRC relent and quit using live birds?? that was why i never ran AKC in the 1990's - live birds were far more realistic for testing dogs. HRC tests were far more hunting realistic. fast forward to euthanised birds like AKC and camo police and the tide has turned.

the reality of it all is that i agree with you and bubbah on the merits of this entire arguement, but texasbirdhunter was not overly spamming his product, his comment fit right in to the thread.

calling him a JO is out of line, and i stand by that and i would say it to bubbas face any day. it was rude and uncalled for.
 
#36 ·
Rick_C said:
1. Either way the duck ends up dead. Do you normally euthanize your ducks while hunting before having your dog pick them up or do you shoot them? HRC pounds it's chest constantly about being a "realistic days hunt". In my reality I shoot duck, dog retrieves duck.

2. I have never seen an AKC test where ducks were euthanized.

Live shot flyer regards,
Click to expand...
so every duck in every AKC test you have been to was a live shot flyer?????
 
#39 ·
david gibson said:
so every duck in every AKC test you have been to was a live shot flyer?????
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8 - 10 ducks are shot during set up. These birds are used to get the test rolling and as dogs are ran and live flyers are shot, there are more dead ducks to use and you don't have to re-bird as often.

I know HRC gasses ducks and shoots no flyers (in general anyway).

Again, where I hunt, the ducks are live and flying. I shoot them, the dog picks 'em up. That, IMO, is how a HUNT test should be conducted. Because of economics not every mark can be a live flyer but they should be a part of the test. Again, IMO.
 
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#40 ·
I have been involved with running and holding events on this property , going on 20 years as have Paul and Dawn. The bird supplier that is used in the area covers most of the Northeast states and is as professional and lowkey as anyone that I have seen in my years of running and judging retrievers.
One of the biggest problems we have on this Army Corps. property is that as the permit states , We do not have exclusive use of the property and can not restrict others from accessing the property when events are being held.We have many problems over the years with dogs running free , bicycles and walkers interupting our field trials and hunt tests. We have had both verbal and physical attacks on our members , we have had equiptment damaged .We have had the D.E.P. law enforcement reports filed and action taken.
Through meetings with the Army Corp. , fold down signs are in place when events are in progress and a list of events is posted at all access points.No one from the public who can read is likely to just stumble upon one of the dog events.
Separate permits are filed with the Army Corp. , Ct. D.E.P. as well as insurance we must have to use the area.
There are people in the area that want this area for their own private park and they don't believe we have a right to use it .
 
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