My 4 year old lab male has raised our 18 month old chessie. They have been best friends and yes they do tussle and take turns trying "dominance" on each other, but always friendly. The chessie went on a dove hunt today, his first, and all he was asked to do was be steady and calm, my husband did not shoot. After the day was over, the chessie, who has always been friendly and outgoing with other dogs, went after his training pard, another chessie. When they got home my lab was ecstatic to see him. Scout went after Indy!!!!! We took them on a walk around the neighborhood, and Scout was amazingly attentive to Ralph, heeling perfectly, etc. But every time we let them "go play" he attacked Indy. What the heck is going on here? Did Scout decide he was the BMOC because of the field work???? Indy is distraught, his best buddy is being mean. What would you make of this?
To the dog behaviorists, have I a problem?
2tall
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It would be irresponsible to claim I knew what was going on with Scout based on so little information, but here's a plausible possibility.
The dove hunting was exciting--an outing with his owner, lots of shots, people and other dogs around. This brought about an increase in what behaviorists call "arousal," basically physical and emotional level of excitement or agitation, a risk factor for aggression.
Guarding tendencies (possessiveness) being common in Chesapeakes, Scout may have felt possessive, probably of your husband. Factoring in the heightened arousal put him over a threshold and he went for the other Peake.
Having tried this behavior once, and possibly having felt it was a good "outlet" for his desire to possess and guard, Scout has added it to his repertoire. That's a real Chesapeake thing--do something once, decide it works, and instantly make a habit of it.
I deal with this issue by keeping dogs separate. I don't think either punishment or "alpha wolf" measures will be constructive. In fact I think they could make the situation more dangerous. I've read about behaviorist approaches but have little first-hand experience with them.
Amy Dahl
The dove hunting was exciting--an outing with his owner, lots of shots, people and other dogs around. This brought about an increase in what behaviorists call "arousal," basically physical and emotional level of excitement or agitation, a risk factor for aggression.
Guarding tendencies (possessiveness) being common in Chesapeakes, Scout may have felt possessive, probably of your husband. Factoring in the heightened arousal put him over a threshold and he went for the other Peake.
Having tried this behavior once, and possibly having felt it was a good "outlet" for his desire to possess and guard, Scout has added it to his repertoire. That's a real Chesapeake thing--do something once, decide it works, and instantly make a habit of it.
I deal with this issue by keeping dogs separate. I don't think either punishment or "alpha wolf" measures will be constructive. In fact I think they could make the situation more dangerous. I've read about behaviorist approaches but have little first-hand experience with them.
Amy Dahl
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Oh Good lord-
Amy and WRL are right on. Any time you take a dog out for a day of obedience trials,Conformation,Hunt tests, or anything like that you could have a problem when you bring the dog home. I would take my collie, who was as mild mannered as they come to a show, come home, and my perfect golden retriever would be a butt. I mentioned it to my obedience trainer and she said that is so normal, just keep them apart for the first day or so and they wil be fine, and it was that easy.Now, I did not let them get away with being jerks if they happened to be rude, but neither did I get upset, just told them BOTH off and put them up.
Sometimes we get just too wrapped up, dogs will be dogs.
Carbon and I were gone all day yesterday, I brought him home, and Whistler knew we had been in a new place with other dogs, so Carbon had been with another group-It makes sense to me that they would be pissy.
Amy and WRL are right on. Any time you take a dog out for a day of obedience trials,Conformation,Hunt tests, or anything like that you could have a problem when you bring the dog home. I would take my collie, who was as mild mannered as they come to a show, come home, and my perfect golden retriever would be a butt. I mentioned it to my obedience trainer and she said that is so normal, just keep them apart for the first day or so and they wil be fine, and it was that easy.Now, I did not let them get away with being jerks if they happened to be rude, but neither did I get upset, just told them BOTH off and put them up.
Sometimes we get just too wrapped up, dogs will be dogs.
Carbon and I were gone all day yesterday, I brought him home, and Whistler knew we had been in a new place with other dogs, so Carbon had been with another group-It makes sense to me that they would be pissy.
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Thank you for some very thoughtful comments. I believe the explanation lies in a combination of what Kristie said about age, Lee said about Scout's reaction to a full day of being with Ralph, and especially what Amy says about the increase in arousal, and the successful intimidation of the other peake leading him to bring the attitude home with him.
My reaction to the "attack" was an immediate collar correction for Scout and to make Indy leave him alone. It was never allowed to escalate into an all out fight. But now, Indy is just as much trouble, because his reaction to Scout's aggression is to be a total PITA, bouncing around at Scout, play bowing, nudging, etc. So I am having to be tough on both of them.
When we went out training this morning, they were fine. Yes they were kept at heel and were paying attention to work, but there was no indication of a preference to fight rather than work. They have worked with birds together before. We do a breaking drill where we toss a duck in front of them and send one or the other. It has never been a problem. They also eat side by side, no food aggression. So I believe we can get a handle on this by just tight supervision and not allowing Scout to have anymore "successful" threats.
Also, the dogs are each in their own kennel for the day and we will try letting them be together in the house again this evening.
My reaction to the "attack" was an immediate collar correction for Scout and to make Indy leave him alone. It was never allowed to escalate into an all out fight. But now, Indy is just as much trouble, because his reaction to Scout's aggression is to be a total PITA, bouncing around at Scout, play bowing, nudging, etc. So I am having to be tough on both of them.
When we went out training this morning, they were fine. Yes they were kept at heel and were paying attention to work, but there was no indication of a preference to fight rather than work. They have worked with birds together before. We do a breaking drill where we toss a duck in front of them and send one or the other. It has never been a problem. They also eat side by side, no food aggression. So I believe we can get a handle on this by just tight supervision and not allowing Scout to have anymore "successful" threats.
Also, the dogs are each in their own kennel for the day and we will try letting them be together in the house again this evening.
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The first time I tried using a collar correction for aggression, it had the opposite effect to what I intended. The aggression intensified. That was the last time I tried that. I don't know how often it works that way, but be aware that it's a possibility.
I do think you are on the right track with interrupting the aggression at a very early stage. When aggression escalates you only have a short time at the beginning when a dog is likely to be responsive to you. You might put some attention into learning the canine body language that signals the earliest stage of aggression. Dogs are said to "orient," or look at the object of their aggression, and "freeze."
I'm glad to hear that things went better this morning. I hope, though, that you will consider this an ongoing issue, and continue to be alert to the need to keep everyone safe. You own a Chesapeake.
Amy Dahl
I do think you are on the right track with interrupting the aggression at a very early stage. When aggression escalates you only have a short time at the beginning when a dog is likely to be responsive to you. You might put some attention into learning the canine body language that signals the earliest stage of aggression. Dogs are said to "orient," or look at the object of their aggression, and "freeze."
I'm glad to hear that things went better this morning. I hope, though, that you will consider this an ongoing issue, and continue to be alert to the need to keep everyone safe. You own a Chesapeake.
Amy Dahl
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Amy we used the collar as a correction to the "here" command when I saw what was coming. It worked in that instance, but you are 100% correct, I need to watch the dog's body language and interrupt the sequence at the very beginning. Trust me, I take this very seriously and never intend to put my self or my dog in a position to get hurt or in trouble. He will be WATCHED!:twisted:
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This is how our trainer taught us to use it with Gunner as well. It requires constant supervision to catch it at the right second, but it's worked.
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Carol,
Our 2 intact males (we have 4 labs) are 1 and 2 in the pack. They are best buddies and only 9 months apart in age. They never have issues unless one of them has gone to vet for any reason. I can take either off the property to a show, ob club, therapy dog work, whatever and no issues upon the dogs return. A trip to the vet for either requires me going out to the yard with one on leash, then letting that dog off leash and me staying with them both for about 15 minutes. That somehow prevents any eruptions between the 2 and they are back to best buds. Something about the vet sets them off and it's usually the one that did not go that has the attitude. I think the subtle reminder that I am the boss, just by being there, ends any issues.
Our 2 intact males (we have 4 labs) are 1 and 2 in the pack. They are best buddies and only 9 months apart in age. They never have issues unless one of them has gone to vet for any reason. I can take either off the property to a show, ob club, therapy dog work, whatever and no issues upon the dogs return. A trip to the vet for either requires me going out to the yard with one on leash, then letting that dog off leash and me staying with them both for about 15 minutes. That somehow prevents any eruptions between the 2 and they are back to best buds. Something about the vet sets them off and it's usually the one that did not go that has the attitude. I think the subtle reminder that I am the boss, just by being there, ends any issues.
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A collar correction for aggression is the absolute worst thing to do. The corrected dog will associate the correction with the other dog (think the other dog is attacking) intensifying the agressive reaction. What I've found to work is to personally intervene, grabing the aggressor by the collar and scruff and lifting them until they are off the ground. Give a little shake and hold them off the ground for a few second and then drop them back to the floor. This reinforces that you are in control of what is acceptable in the pack, and that what just happened is NOT acceptable. If teeth are bared and the dogs are all hackled up and about to go at it, or if they are already going at it, a quick wiffle bat blow between them also works well.
As was stated, check and make sure that the hunted dog is not sore or suffering from any cuts or abrasions. A tired/sore dog sometimes gets very protective of its space and will offer a premptive challange.
T. Mac
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"Grab the aggressor by the collar?"
No Way!!!
That will surely backfire.
If he's fired up, he surely will take it out on whoever is grabbing his collar.
Devert their attention on you.
Depending on the dogs or the situation............
I may yell "SIT" or NO SIT".
Jump in the middle with a shovel or broom.
Please be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sue
No Way!!!
That will surely backfire.
If he's fired up, he surely will take it out on whoever is grabbing his collar.
Devert their attention on you.
Depending on the dogs or the situation............
I may yell "SIT" or NO SIT".
Jump in the middle with a shovel or broom.
Please be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sue
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As stated before, the collar is used only to interrupt the progression. I used it with a "here" command to get the dog back to me. When the actual first lunge took place with growling and teeth showing, a quick NO SIT broke it off. Then when I would see the signals starting again, I used the "here" with nick. I agree trying to break up a full on fight with a burn would not work. But dang if I am going to stick my hand in there!
The more I read here and think about it, Amy is right on. Scout had just experienced a very long exciting day and came home in a "high" state. Indy was just as much at fault, because he would NOT leave Scout alone. I think now I should have kept them apart until both settled down, even though Indy's intentions were innocently playful.
Duk4me, we are too old to need THAT kind of arousal in the house!
The more I read here and think about it, Amy is right on. Scout had just experienced a very long exciting day and came home in a "high" state. Indy was just as much at fault, because he would NOT leave Scout alone. I think now I should have kept them apart until both settled down, even though Indy's intentions were innocently playful.
Duk4me, we are too old to need THAT kind of arousal in the house!
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Carol,
I've never used an e-collar to break up a spat. Honestly my worst spats have been between a spayed bitch and a neutered male. If I have to interfere (usually handled by a firm look from my intact show male} someone tends to either end up in the pool or grabbed by the scuff and tossed in a crate. I'm really strict on basic ob. If someone is starting show attitude they draw 10 minute sit stays in front of their food before it gets bad. All of them do at least one stint per week of 3 minute sit stay in front of the food bowl.
I've never used an e-collar to break up a spat. Honestly my worst spats have been between a spayed bitch and a neutered male. If I have to interfere (usually handled by a firm look from my intact show male} someone tends to either end up in the pool or grabbed by the scuff and tossed in a crate. I'm really strict on basic ob. If someone is starting show attitude they draw 10 minute sit stays in front of their food before it gets bad. All of them do at least one stint per week of 3 minute sit stay in front of the food bowl.
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I agree with Sue and would not deliver an e collar correction in an aggression situation."Grab the aggressor by the collar?"
No Way!!!
That will surely backfire.
If he's fired up, he surely will take it out on whoever is grabbing his collar.
Devert their attention on you.
Depending on the dogs or the situation............
I may yell "SIT" or NO SIT".
Jump in the middle with a shovel or broom.
Please be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sue
G
Guest
·to each his own. I know a trainer that killed a dog when he hit it just right with a broom. we've had no problem using that method, but we don't have a lot of dog fights either. I will risk getting bitten to protect the victim dog. I have yet to be bitten... A truly aggressive dog usually doesn't care if you're yelling a command. I've never had it backfire. And we have never had a dog at the vet as a result of a dog fight, either because we get it apart quickly when it happens."Grab the aggressor by the collar?"
No Way!!!
That will surely backfire.
If he's fired up, he surely will take it out on whoever is grabbing his collar.
Devert their attention on you.
Depending on the dogs or the situation............
I may yell "SIT" or NO SIT".
Jump in the middle with a shovel or broom.
Please be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sue
i'm not saying not to use your way, either. But that's what works for us and no dogs and no people hurt, except for a puncture wound here and there that wasn't severe.
Don't you love living with a bunch of dogs some days!!!!
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Carol,
Now that the cat is out of the bag, you will need to keep a much closer watch on the two. Some Chessies seem to carry grudges and will act out at some future time. My recommendation, if you do not have any around your house, is to get a couple wiffle bats and put them where they are always handy. They are fairly cheap - $4 - 5 ea. Or you can get them by the dozen from Amazon.com for a litle over $40.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0000BYRPR&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1R72AE8MJNX46QHSW9W1
And honest, you can really whale on the dogs with these bats and not hurt them. And slaping them on the ground in between them really makes a lot of noise and a big whoosh of air. Enough to distract them and hopefully assist in getting them under control should another skirmish break out. Also strongly recommend that they not be left together when you are not around.
T. Mac
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T. Mac, I do have a whiffle bat! So far, today and tonight all is well as long as I do not allow Indy to harass Scout to death. But as I said before, we know now to always keep a vigilant watch out for this. What is really interesting is that there appears to be a total sea change in Scout. He is behaving on lead and off, totally ignoring Indy, just generally acting like the big dog Indy never grew up to be. He is still just as affectionate to us, but has seemed to cast away his puppyness. Does this make sense?
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That describes Gunner to a tee. His work ethic is outstanding, and Stryke is a big, goofy clown. I'm glad to hear today was better for you. They sure keep you on your toes, huh?
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