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Yet another case of pit bull killing

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#61 ·
walt8@cox.net said:
Jesus David, I'm not disputing the dogs can be dangerous. They shouldn't be owned by 99% of the people that do own them. In the earlier part of the last century, an outsider couldn't buy a pit bull. It was a closed society and outsiders were absolutely not permitted in, for very good reason.
You have to have a brain to own a pit bull, and that's the problem, too many of us don't have one.
Walt
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then i am not sure what your side of the debate has been about. if there is inherent discrimination toward PB's here, then its because those that feel that way feel they are dangerous. full circle argument.

peace to you and your pits, and may they never turn on one of your labs. i am a geologist and by default a bit agnostic to religion in the vernacular sense, but labs in particular and all other retrievers a very very close 2nd followed by all other dogs are the closest thing to a Supreme Being that i have ever experienced.... ;-)

kristie is my hero - "eat, sleep, fetch, repeat"

thats gold right there!
 
#62 ·
I'm saying you can't blame the breed for the actions of irresponsible owners.
Same thing with guns and gun owners. I had my pit bulls for 9 years with 3 altercations. All three times it was a golden retriever who picked the fight. Same dog, running loose. Mine on a lead, minding her own business.
These dogs are not supposed to be loose, EVER. It's the owner that bears responsibility. I have nothing but contempt for the jackass who allowed that dog to kill that poor woman, and I hold him personally responsible for it.
There is so much stupidity in this world, nothing surprised me, but the idea of killing off an entire breed, or taking someones pet out of their house and sterilizing it, is so offensive and stupid, I feel lost and can't think of anything else to say.
Walt
 
#63 ·
HuntinDawg said:
I'm not a pit owner, breeder or apologist, but this begs the question:

If we were somehow able to eliminate all pits in America (tough since there isn't even a good definition), what breed would the dog fighters, drug dealers and thugs turn to next? And after we ban THAT breed, what next? It just seems like a long slippery slope to me.
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You will see the same dogs that people are seeing in cities where pits are banned. I would suspect dog fighters and thugs would move towards the Tosa Inu, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasilerio, Presa Canario, Cane Corso, American Bulldog, Rots, or a mix of these dogs. I have seen some of these breeds work in schutzhund and I would not mess around with them. Some are bred solely for working and are not meant to be pets.
 
#64 ·
HuntinDawg said:
I'm not a pit owner, breeder or apologist, but this begs the question:

If we were somehow able to eliminate all pits in America (tough since there isn't even a good definition), what breed would the dog fighters, drug dealers and thugs turn to next? And after we ban THAT breed, what next? It just seems like a long slippery slope to me.
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OMG you are right! i didnt think about this..... before long, the drug dealers and thugs would have to resort to - horrors of all horrors - labradoodles!!!

oh man this is scary stuff!
 
#65 ·
walt8@cox.net said:
I'm saying you can't blame the breed for the actions of irresponsible owners.
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walt, please - by this you are saying that the owners are always responsible for the actions of the breed.

if you believe this, then you are saying that all dogs have the same instincts. this doesnt bear out.

retrievers retrieve. anything that can be retrieved.
herders herd. anything that can be herded.
guard dogs guard. anything that can be guarded.
lap dogs sit in laps. any lap available.
service dogs serve. whatever needs served - sight, scent, search, assistance.
fighting dogs fight. anything in sight sometimes.
labradoodles - um. .... hmm. ok, so my logic isnt 100% perfect... ;-)
 
#66 ·
David, we're talking about pit bulls. The people that own a pit bull know what they are getting, or should. They are going to be held to a higher standard by owning these dogs and should act accordingly. That means you have to be careful. It can't be luck that I owned 4 of these dogs for almost a decade without any problems. And I've already admitted to not being a brilliant dog trainer. So how did that happen?
 
#67 ·
Hmmm.. I found a tiny beaten up pit a long time ago and brought her home. She was pretty much the sweetest dog on the planet and loved to play ball fetch. Then I rescued a pit mix from the pund about 3 months old. At first he was so sweet, playing with the kids. As he continued to grow up around the kids, he would frolic about with them. Soon, he was chasing them with aggression and growling and snapping at their heels. I had him put down. Later, I took 2 pits out of my daughters house that I had spent time with when she had to leave the state. The older one snapped on the pup and ripped it to shreds before my eyes... These were also put down. I will never forget the pups screams..

Now, there are a couple of them that live in my neighborhood. One runs loose quite frequently, acting friendly to all who come near it. But this summer it came running at me as I was loading my labs in the truck, barking and growling. I jumped in my truck as he came to me. I have let the owner know that if this happens again, I will kill it if I have the opportunity...

Guess you never know what they will do... My first one made me love them. But now I don't trust them. At least other peoples dogs..
 
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#69 ·
walt8@cox.net said:
David, we're talking about pit bulls. The people that own a pit bull know what they are getting, or should. They are going to be held to a higher standard by owning these dogs and should act accordingly. That means you have to be careful. It can't be luck that I owned 4 of these dogs for almost a decade without any problems. And I've already admitted to not being a brilliant dog trainer. So how did that happen?
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sorry walt, but:
>>>>
I had my first retrievers with my girlfriend back in the early 80's. Megan Bren, our first lab became an FC/AFC at 2.5 yrs. She was totaly amateur trained and without an electric collar. She was as fine a field trial competitor as I've ever seen. Maxine, our second lab, Megans half sister out of Truckee's Nitro Chief, one of Mac DuBose's dogs, was QAA at 3 and jamed her first Amateur. I had to quit Field Trialing right after Maxines jam because of personal reasons. I've just started in trials again and now own a canadian bred dog, Sweetie. She was QAA at 22 months and makes training look easy.
>>>>>

your own words contradict you..... it happened because you are as good of a trainer as you are pretending not to be. no luck. just skill. maybe unhoned skill, but skill still. been there done that... ;-)

now drop the pit praising and start talking about what you plan to do next with Sweetie...training all yourself or with a pro????
 
#70 ·
walt8@cox.net said:
David, read DEDEYE's post. Is it the breeds fault the pit bull in her neighborhood is running loose? If that isn't what I'm talking about, I don't know what is.
Walt
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i read DEDEYE's post. seems to me DEDEYE did everything possible to assimilate 4 dogs, and they were still untrustworthy. so, in this case, its certainly not DEDEYE's fault. that leaves breed.

i give up. time for bed. i like to drift off with scenarios of triples with a tight cheating blind and a diversion poison bird on the way out.........
 
#71 ·
david gibson said:
OMG you are right! i didnt think about this..... before long, the drug dealers and thugs would have to resort to - horrors of all horrors - labradoodles!!!

oh man this is scary stuff!
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David, I know I'm not going to change your mind. But it bears considering, if dog fighters, drug dealers, thugs, and idiot wanna-look-bad owners have "ruined" the pit bull breed or led it down this path to what it has become and those dogs were somehow unavailable, I would guess that the Rottweiler would be the next breed that these people would gravitate to. Some people already hold similar opinions of the Rottweiler as Pits, but the Rottweiler is a legit breed. But these clowns will start breeding the meanest Rottweiler (I don't have one, don't want one, never been around one much, just a likely example) to the meanest Rottweiler to produce the dogs they want, fighting dogs or whatever. Now we ban the Rottweiler. Now they pick another breed. Dobermans, German Shepherds or one of the more exotic breeds, but eventually they would get around to just about any large, powerful breed. They wouldn't make it all the way to the labradoodle, nor likely any of the retriever breeds (Chessies maybe??) but they would ruin a lot of good, legitimate dog breeds along the way. Of course this assumes we could actually get rid of pits, which I doubt.

What do you say to the "Dog Whisperer" and his success "rehabilitating" pit bulls? I don't want a pit and don't know if I could ever trust one around my kids or other pets the way I trust my labs, BUT he has some awfully docile pit bulls. One of them ("Daddy") is his "go to" dog when he needs to bring a powerful but calm presence around other out of control dogs. I wouldn't be afraid to hang out with "Daddy" from what I've seen and I'm pretty sure he and some of the other pits in Caesar's "pack" came from rough backgrounds.
 
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#72 ·
OMD, David, that third picture down on your home page is AweSome. The owner and dog have the same look on their face. Priceless.

Kris
 
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#73 ·
thats what attacked me.

walt - you jump in here defending PIT BULLS with your first post ever.

please tell me - all of us - about your experience with retrievers? why are you here??? please tell us about your accomplishments training retrievers since you first post ever is in support of pits. (fruedian, eh? as in the "pits")
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I'm not Walt but I do agree with him.
Am I allowed to be here?.
What is your experience with pits besides getting bit by one:)

I dont think its fair to bite the new guy

First most people who breed pit bulls are similar to most people who breed labs or chessies or goldens.
They see a golden,,,they own a golden or something that looks like one and say hey lets breed them.
The reasons we have nice labs,chessies,and goldens to breed to is because we have people who have bred to maintain their abilities because as of yet in this country ,hunting And field trials are still legal.
If we were to do away with these activities the lab would eventually end up in the same comparitive boat. Just some common black kerr dog.

In countries where fighting is still legal and the breeding of competitive pit dogs exist,,they probably still cull the dogs which are people aggressive.
Back when people were breeding for the desired traits,,,they would cull a dog that looked crosseyed at someone weather or not they had won lots of money.
The lack of competion is probably the result of what we have here in this country today.
Most pits that bite are crosses yet are still called pits,, go to any shelter and if a dog is black choc or yellow its a lab cross.

Once you cross a pit you no longer have a pit mentality. you have a pit crossed with a kerr mentality.
No different than a pointer /lab cross you can get a dog that busts birds a quarter mile away.

I think about half of the AkC breeds have tried to bite me,,,should we radicate those breeds. But I think most of the snarling little buggers have been mutts ,,, you know the ones people say make the best pets.

I think people just get to emotional so their judgement is impaired.

Just like its my right to own a gun doesnt mean I know how to use it.

Same with bully breeds. Its best to learn about this pretty darn cool breed before you own one or you might end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Pete
 
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#74 ·
I can't sleep, hopefully you can and you can read this in the morning. I'm tired of arguing with people I have so much in common with. So I'm done too.
Sweet's having trouble with in-lines. That middle gun is brutal, especially retired. She's showing signs of getting it though, had our first success last Saturday. She's a little better at retired indents but not much, so there's lots to do. Her handling is very good, good control on long blinds. She's got a great work ethic and loves to train.
No pro this winter. Too much to do at home and I'd want to go with her. Hope your training is going well David, all the best for the holidays.
Walt
 
#75 · (Edited)
Kris Hunt said:
OMD, David, that third picture down on your home page is AweSome. The owner and dog have the same look on their face. Priceless.

Kris
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No, no, no, no. Looks like the owner is terrified and the dog is having a ball. :p

Love the pic, I really can't stop laughing when I'm looking at it.

I was just thinking. If that was a gal instead of a guy, if it was a field trial instead of a dock jumping competition, and the dog was yellow instead of black........ that could be dedeye and her trusty dog Darla at an all age event. :p :p

Image


Picture taken from David Gibson's web site. Hope it's OK.
 
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#76 · (Edited)
Steve Amrein said:
So if I put a pole in my front yard and strapped a grenade to it kid hi so the could reach the pin would you fell bad for me ?

I hope the dog owners wake up everyday hearing the screams of the dying woman and her dog.


Sorry TN Lab to be so harsh
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Yes. I would still have sadness for your sorrow.

I'm not sure I used the word "bad."
 
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#77 · (Edited)
Howard N said:
No, no, no, no. Looks like the owner is terrified and the dog is having a ball. :p

Love the pic, I really can't stop laughing when I'm looking at it.

I was just thinking. If that was a gal instead of a guy, if it was a field trial instead of a dock jumping competition, and the dog was yellow instead of black........ that could be dedeye and her trusty dog Darla at an all age event. :p :p

snipped pic

Picture taken from David Gibson's web site. Hope it's OK.
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the dog is a great jumper - unfortunately the handler is a poor thrower - he nearly hit a lady spectator on the side as the tossed bumper missed the pool.....these events can be great to watch! you'll see all kinds of breeds, but yet to see a great dane, pit, or rott. a doberman or 2, a few belguim malinois, and a lot of mutts, but labs and goldens mostly
 
#78 ·
Howard N said:
.....

I was just thinking. If that was a gal instead of a guy, if it was a field trial instead of a dock jumping competition, and the dog was yellow instead of black........ that could be dedeye and her trusty dog Darla at an all age event. :p :p
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I have an idea you will pay for that remark!! :p

JS
 
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#79 ·
Howard N said:
No, no, no, no. Looks like the owner is terrified and the dog is having a ball. :p

Love the pic, I really can't stop laughing when I'm looking at it.

I was just thinking. If that was a gal instead of a guy, if it was a field trial instead of a dock jumping competition, and the dog was yellow instead of black........ that could be dedeye and her trusty dog Darla at an all age event. :p :p

Image


Picture taken from David Gibson's web site. Hope it's OK.
Click to expand...
Howard you are still my favorite MORON....
 
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Discussion starter · #80 ·
I had a that about this. I am not wanting a ban on Pits but I want to make sure those responsible for them are responsible. Here is my plan:

All current pits must be micro chipped and registered with some local or state authority.

DNA samples will be taken and any dog found after X date will be traced back to breeder.

Breeders need to post a million dollar bond or liabilty ins.

All pit owners must have a 6 ft high fence and be buried 1 ft in the ground.

All owners must have a miilion dollar ins policy.

Any owner who dog kills a human will get manditory 25 years.

No felons will be allowed to own a pit.

Failure to abide by these laws will carry a manditory 5 year sentance.


Ok some of thes may be extreme but if I leave my loaded gun on the coffee table and some kid shots someone I will likely have huge monetary and likely jail time. Same if I had a tiger, lion, or large primate. The majority of people are responsible owners of guns, cars animals and so on. What needs to happen is a deterent for folks who are not responsible to be held as such. I really blame the owners not the dogs.
 
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