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SH marks thread.....

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#81 ·
Juli H said:
I wish I was smart enough to be able to stitch those pix together.... marking pic shows initial line to the blind, and the next pic shows the rest of it. :)

The line to the flyer could cause some difficulty, because of the strip of cover and that it is landing in front of the tree. If possible it would be great to use only mallard drakes, or cock pheasants for the go bird......

another option would be to make it the memory bird and have the flyer thrown from fall area of bird #1, landing in the field.
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In the third picture (with the flyer on the right) isn't the flyer being shot at or in close proximity to the other gun station?
 
Discussion starter · #82 ·
no the flyer is thrown toward the tree line and lands at the yellow dot.

Juli
 
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#85 ·
wackemnstackem said:
sorry Gregg I just don't like it....( your test)... looks to me like JH marks shot as a double.......this is all good info for me because I have my Judges seminar coming up @ the end of the month... I'll have plenty of questions for the instructor...thank you
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Image


I assume this picture. What is a mark? FACTORS.

Lets look at this picture. Lets take the flyer first.
What is all there? About 5 or 6 cover changes. Two small trees to and it is at the back of that last brown patch of cover almost to the trees. Once they get that far they have to convince themselves not to break down and perservere up against those trees. If I were to do that for a Junior dog it would be left of the first little tree and only slightly deeper than that tree if not short of it. From those two short treesback into that darker cover is the difference.

The left hand bird a memory bird (factor 1). Then you add two very distinct
fairways for the dog to go that avoids the cover. One right and one left.
A sever angle into the cover. A side hill with the bird near the top of the upper edge. Lower edge would have been easier. I don't think I would run that mark for a Junior dog.

Nancy said.
"Just because a person has seen or run tests doesn't make them appropiate for a senior dog. Senior is one of the most difficult stakes to set up because people have to remember what level a senior dog should be at."
I have seen the simpleist and toughest inappropriate tests. Just because they get done does not make them right. As she said it is about appropriateness. As I said factors.

Good judges, bad jodges, thats another topic. Realizing appropriateness and not forgetting what it takes, makes the good judges. JMHO.
 
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#86 ·
wackemnstackem said:
please show me your test for that piece of water....;)
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I already stated in post #55 I wouldn't want to run the marks and blinds together on that pond. I would run them apart.
 
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Discussion starter · #87 ·
brandywinelabs said:
Image
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I think that dogs could possibly overrun the flyer, drive up the hill and keep on keepin on....and I think if you reversed the order this would be even more likely.....

I think this is a very fair and straight forward senior test...(either way it's run)...

Juli
 
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#88 ·
wackemnstackem said:
Image


this is a walk-up......1st bird to the right then the 2nd bird straight out ( a flyer is shot) pick up both birds..return to holding blind with 2nd bird...diversion shot is fired.. then run your blind
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I hadn't looked at this before my last post. But I just did.
wackem. Now I amreally confused. You thought my double was Junior ish.
Yet your right hand mark is near where I stated I might put my junior mark.
And your left hand mark is straight down the fairway. I'll give you it is tight to the bush/tree but it won't land there because it is a flyer. Again convering marks. If indeed the left hand bird was a flyer you will probably have flyers right of there and that is for sure too tight for this level.
 
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#89 ·
Juli H said:
I think that dogs could possibly overrun the flyer, drive up the hill and keep on keepin on....and I think if you reversed the order this would be even more likely.....

I think this is a very fair and straight forward senior test...(either way it's run)...

Juli
Click to expand...
Thanks.
R we havin' fun yet!
 
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#90 ·
brandywinelabs said:
I hadn't looked at this before my last post. But I just did.
wackem. Now I amreally confused. You thought my double was Junior ish.
Yet your right hand mark is near where I stated I might put my junior mark.
And your left hand mark is straight down the fairway. I'll give you it is tight to the bush/tree but it won't land there because it is a flyer. Again convering marks. If indeed the left hand bird was a flyer you will probably have flyers right of there and that is for sure too tight for this level.
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your confused....My head is spinning like a top now.....the next time I have a SH dog I'll be sure to look you up as a judge because it would be a lock.... Maybe the judges up here are just more strick ( expect more) than where you are from because what I've seen in person and what your stating are two totally different worlds. I have notice a difference from NY tests to MD and also a difference from MD to OH and from my experience MD is the hardest. like I mentioned before this all good info for me personally and I do appreciate it...;)
 
#91 · (Edited)
wackemnstackem said:
you can't be serious...I have run way harder SH test than this IMHO....all marks well under 90 yds...to me it doesn't get any more straight forward....
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You don't know my dog. :p

I am soooo new at all this stuff and don't have a ton of experience to refer back to. I just know that the few Sr. level tests that I've witnessed and/or experienced I've seen factors similar to these that presented problems for Sr. level dogs. Were those dogs undertrained and ill-prepared? Obviously so. I'm just saying that having those 3 elements in sequence would not be impossible, but it would be quite a handful (that's me drawing from the VERY limited experience that I've seen at the Sr. level dog).

It is straightforward and well within the bounds of Sr. level testing for sure. I'm just saying there are (as it ought to be) elements on each of the birds that could make it challenging (as it ought to be).

And yes...I'd think any handler would be VERY proud of their dog (as they ought to be) for successfully managing this (or pretty much ANY) Sr. level setup.
 
#92 · (Edited)
wackemnstackem said:
your confused....My head is spinning like a top now.....the next time I have a SH dog I'll be sure to look you up as a judge because it would be a lock.... Maybe the judges up here are just more strick ( expect more) than where you are from because what I've seen in person and what your stating are two totally different worlds. I have notice a difference from NY tests to MD and also a difference from MD to OH and from my experience MD is the hardest. like I mentioned before this all good info for me personally and I do appreciate it...;)
Click to expand...
Good, I hope this makes you think.
You also said
"you can't be serious...I have run way harder SH test than this IMHO....all marks well under 90 yds...to me it doesn't..."
Distance does not a mark make. It is the factors, like terrain, placement, cover changes, obstacles, trees, wind, background, other marks, blind, etc.
A well placed mark at 40 yds can be as challenging as well placed mark at 100yds.

Take this picture.
Image


Lets say 45 yds (It doesn't loook 45 yds but lets say). The mark falling in the cover strip, no wind. Lets add another strip of cover halfway there coming out from the tree toward the top of the picture. Execpt this on is 5 yds wide and at 30 yds from the line.
What are you INITIAL impressions of that mark as:
A junior single?
A senior memory bird after running a first bird flyer at 70 yds?
A master mark, first bird down and last bird picked up, Second bird 70 yds.
Pick up the 70 yarder, When you get back to the line a flyer is thrown at
85 yds. Which of course you pick up. Now you have this short one to get.
 
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#93 ·
I would have no problem using it as all three
A junior single?
shows that the dog will push thru cover ( desirer) and shows persistence & marking ability
A senior memory bird after running a first bird flyer at 70 yds?
A master mark, first bird down and last bird picked up, Second bird 70 yds.
shows that the dog will push thru cover ( desirer) and shows persistence,marking memory ability
 
Discussion starter · #94 ·
I would think that the short memory bird (45 yd) after running two marks that were twice the distance, you'd have trouble with dogs overrunning it - esp with the flyer thrown and shot after the first mark.

Juli
 
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#95 ·
Juli H said:
I would think that the short memory bird (45 yd) after running two marks that were twice the distance, you'd have trouble with dogs overrunning it - esp with the flyer thrown and shot after the first mark.

Juli
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If it's an indent, it's tough in FT and in HT. Can look easy but isn't, especially if the line is run from a higher point than the marks and the indent is hidden or retired.
 
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#96 ·
But what will the dogs do?
 
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#98 ·
nevermind answered
 
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Discussion starter · #99 ·
brandywinelabs said:
Wackem, You still haven't said what you expect the dogs to do in each case.
Click to expand...

I think it would depend upon where the marks were actually located.... types of marks (under the arc, pinched, etc)..can't really say WHAT the dogs would do w/out more info...and even then, it is still hypothetical. :)

Juli
 
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#100 ·
wackem, what is HT background? How many dogs titled and what stakes? Just curious.
 
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Juli H
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