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1tulip

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Years ago, I had two QAA dogs, moved to an new state, fell in with some hunt test folks and got MH's on both. (It was a piece of cake. I think the game has gotten stiffer over the years.)

Now, 25 or so years later, I'm doing it the other way round. Believe me, we have a long haul before we get the MH behind her name, but we're plugging away at it. I think she's ready to make a try for some senior ribbons this year.

So... let's say both my dog and I live long enough to get the MH... what, if any additional skill sets would she (or I) need to have to run in the Quals? I would think there is an issue of long, longer and longest on marks and blinds. But that's pretty much how we train anyhow. From what I can discern, the MH stakes are much more complex than the Quals... (at least the ones I remember) so it stands to reason it would be a fairly easy transition.

How many MH's run in Opens? What differentiates a solid MH performer from an OAA dog?
 
#2 ·
Roy McFall has FC AFC Hiwood Jaguar MH...and without getting into a urinating contest its like asking which martial arts discipline is better....

I know less than next to nothing about hunt tests...some may say I know less than that about FT's too :):)
 
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#3 ·
QAA and MH are very similar. sometimes I think it's easier for a MH to become QAA than the opposite.The norm at a qual. you don't run blinds through marks. MH dogs are used to tight setups and running blinds in the same series. Yes MH dogs campaign the Am. and Open but don't forget at HT your dog is passing a test whereas a FT dog must be the top dog on that day.There are many wonderful dogs campaigning on the trial circuit all their life and never title whereas they probably would have become a MH.Play the game that you like best even if it is both.I don't want to get into a pissing match with any one but an FC offspring is worth more than a MH's. Simply because it is harder to title on the trial circuit.
 
#5 ·
Quote:
The norm at a qual. you don't run blinds through marks.
Last two quals I have run there was a combined 1st & 2nd series with the blind run between the marks or tight behind the flyer station.
Click to expand...
Junfan68 is right. You do run blinds through the marks at a Q. I'd almost state you'll do it more times than not in the land series.
 
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#7 ·
My biggest issue when going from a HT to FT was the white coats in the field. If you have not trained with white in the fields then start. All of my training now involves it. The problem I had was when the closer flier station with all of the white was getting ready I could not get my dogs to look off of it to the long gun up the middle. My dogs have seen flier stations but at a HT when they hear the duck call they look toward it. NO duck calls in FT's.
Most of the HT people around here do not train with white in the field and I think it does mess with the dogs--and handler:rolleyes:
Joe
 
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#8 ·
I agree with the white coat comment. I have a dog that has just killed it in hunt tests both AKC and HRC. I train with some field trialers once in a great while and my boy doesnt even want to look at the white coats. In fact its like it makes him nervous to look at them. I will have the person throwing move around and make noise and he gives a glance and you can see the confusion start. He was trained for the last two years with all guns hidden and all most never any sound, just swinging with the gun.

Good luck and maybe I will see ya at a Q, I havent given up yet.
 
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#9 ·
How do you train on marks "IF" you aren't useing white coats???
Do you really think that your dogs see camo???
Yes I know the duck calls............................
The difference I see or have seen between HT and Trials is the percision of the dog work.
Example: How many times would a handle on a mark get you back to the next series in a trial or one too many slipped whistles, sloppy handling, talking while on the honor............
Sue
 
#10 ·
The white coats are to your dogs advantage.They will never see a bird thrown at 3-400yds. from a camo blind. I have always trained with white coats and my dogs have trouble at HTs cause they are looking for white.Everybody loves a good marking dog but if my dog can remember the area cause of white at least I have a chance.
 
#11 ·
Also there is a huge difference in a retired gun and a hidden gunner. Once you retire the gunner you have changed the picture for the dog. Make sure and train on retired guns. I have run several quals over the past two years and only a handful of times has the land blind not been run through or close to marks from the previous series. Most down wind of the flyer station.
 
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#12 ·
Drake and I have not yet run a Master test or a Qual. However one of the groups I train with (some pro-HT trainers) does sometimes wear white. Example- to teach long marks through or tight to closer marks. That white coat in the truck is a good tool even for HT dogs at times.

Steve
 
#13 ·
Field trials are difficult, a dog needs to progress rapidly in order to compete. Early derby training involves the dog learning to handle not so much for running blinds but so dogs can handle on a mark and learn concepts. This leads to running the qual with marks, a retired gun, and fairly difficult blinds, but no diversion such as a poison bird or dry pop.

I actully think you are better off concentrating on field trials from the begining, then if you want that MH title, switching over to hunt test when the dog is comfortable with the qual, right around three or four. I think it is easier to transition from long to short, the duck calls really help and a clean handle on a mark won't kill you like it does in field trials. Breaking? Now that's another story.

John
 
#14 ·
John Robinson said:
This leads to running the qual with marks, a retired gun, and fairly difficult blinds, but no diversion such as a poison bird or dry pop.

John
Click to expand...
Never say never...;-)
 
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#15 ·
I’ve been told my many successful FT people not to mix the two: HT/FT right away. The advice was, go as far as you can in the FT game and than back up and play the HT game. I found this out when I started working for a FT pro and was running my MH in his set ups. The head swing was terrible because of the white coats sitting in the field and the distances. So I broke everything down to single and advanced now to triples, retired gunners, and longer blinds (Qual work). Now when I run HT’s we smack them. One of the pro’s clients has labs running in HT’s and their other lab’s only run FT’s which are on the pro’s truck, again not to mix.
 
#17 · (Edited)
IMHO the biggest challenge dogs have in moving from MH to Qual begins before the first gun is fired. Many HT only dogs don't/won't look long(200+yds) past 2 shorter visible gun stations. Many Q's will start with a triple all guns out.

Tim
 
#18 ·
Sue Kiefer said:
How do you train on marks "IF" you aren't useing white coats???
Do you really think that your dogs see camo???
Yes I know the duck calls............................
The difference I see or have seen between HT and Trials is the percision of the dog work.
Example: How many times would a handle on a mark get you back to the next series in a trial or one too many slipped whistles, sloppy handling, talking while on the honor............
Sue
Click to expand...
My dogs mark the bird not the gun station/ white coat. I've never had an issue with marking at HT. Not saying that we've never handled on a mark, but usally the marks are clean pickups.
Joe
 
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#19 · (Edited)
Look up Prime Time Rising Star MH on Entry Express. May not be a typical example as she appears to have passed 15 straight HTs, then got a 3rd in her first Q before failing a Master test. I believe she also qualified at the Master National.

Anyway,
Owner is Randall/John Gerbino
Trainer is Jill Volsch

May try to contact them for insight.
 
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#20 ·
BonMallari said:
Roy McFall has FC AFC Hiwood Jaguar MH...and without getting into a urinating contest its like asking which martial arts discipline is better....

I know less than next to nothing about hunt tests...some may say I know less than that about FT's too :):)
Click to expand...
Yeah, you can say all of that again. Until I started putting together the web site for this year's Master National, which is being held in Corning, California, hosted by the Lassen Retriever Club. Then all of a sudden...I learned a few things about Hunt Tests...:cool:
 
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